Talk:World map

I have decided to draw this world map as there was no good world map of IB yet and having many different maps for various regions has several problems:

1.It is hard to update these maps. For example now the Middle East map from Ill Bethisad maps page shows different African nations than there really are, one of the European maps shows no Skuodia nor Xliponia and so on. As IB world changes constantly it is important that the maps would reflect those changes. It might be therefore hard to understand which of the borders are the ones that are currently regarded as QSS (for example, it is hard for me to understand what states there are in India as there seem to be some contradictions between what is written in India article and what is shown on maps - I have drawn this map based on the Asian map).

2.It will be easier for new members or just people interetsed in IB to find out what the IB world really is from a single map. I suggest making a link from the main page to this page.

Due to the reasons I have said above I might have made some mistakes when drawing this map. You can tell them here and feel free to edit the map yourself, it is not hard (the font I used is Arial, 8 pt, italic if the area is not independent and non-italic otherwise). If this is to become the official map then everybody should be permitted to edit it (of course based on QSS or agreement). I have used MS Paint to draw this. Abdul-aziz 09:17, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

One thing: You're missing Nea Illenicia. I regret that I have slacked in my Map-making, but without an internet connection at the house, it's difficult of late to update the maps. Thank you for making this map. BoArthur 09:31, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Yes, I know, I have purposefully not added Nea Illenicia because as far as I remember it was not decided where exactly Nea Illenicia is. Abdul-aziz 09:51, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Does anyone? Anyway, thankyou, THANKYOU for atlast a world map! Some points - Tibet seems big, as do the middle african nations, Punjab is Sikh Rázj Sa˜md/h, and Sirya is Syria. Nassia is Nassland. --Quentin 10:55, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

I also think this is a wonderful addition. Pending the small changes requested - and a "smoother" look - this should become a standard to be updated by all. Kyrmse 11:00, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

You are welcome :) . I doubt anybody knows where Nea Illenica is as there were various discussions but no decition yet (see Talk:Nea Illenicia). Some alterations in size of the countries are due to the projection of the map (that is, the world map will always be more distorted than regional maps as the earth is round and the maps are not) but I tried to minimize that. Middle African countries seems to be similar in size with what is shown in the African map here. Tibet is indeed too large however if comparing with the Asian map but I am not to sure how to correct that. I will correct the spelling errors. Abdul-aziz 11:10, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

The spelling mistakes are now corrected. The old versions of this map should probably be constantly deleted as the file is big. Abdul-aziz 11:15, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Very nicely done! The only changes I'm in the process of making are the addition of "Aotearoa" and the removal of New Sweden and Nja Island. They are nothing more than NAL provinces. The only difference between Nja Island and Castreleon New is that the people of one are "subjects of the Kemrese monarch" while the people of the other are "subjects of the Scandinavian monarch". This in no abrogates ALL of their citizenship of the North American League. If it is felt NECESSARY to differentiate these two provinces, then there are about 15 more that need to similarly differentiated! Frankly, I don't see the point in doing that as the distinction is one of history and a couple treaties rather than one or real politics. I'm also going to place it in the Atlas page. Elemtilas 06:24, 1 July 2006 (PDT)

Nea Illenicia

I'll work up a regional map. I remember that they started on the coast, but were moved inland so that they were up against the Andes and took a chunk of internal land for themselves. I'll try to get it up soon so we can have the world map updated. BoArthur 11:18, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Wallpaper

This is a wallpaper - a non-finished version! - for those who wish to have the IB world map on their desktops. I'm using it myself. Kyrmse 11:54, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Nice :) Abdul-aziz 14:07, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

... now outdated, of course ... Kyrmse 10:32, 22 February 2007 (PST)

What happen with "The List Map"

What happen with "The List Map", I known that it's a vector map but could be easly transormed th nice IB world map

The list map is still available at The List. It is .jpg rather than a vector image, unless there is somewhere a vector version of it as well (as JPEGs are hard to resize nicely and very hard to colour). For it to be nice it should be made way larger so that small countries would be well visible and it would be possible to write names on them and as well it needs to be updated (for example on that map Chile goes all the way south into Patagonia, there is no Thousand Emirates, there is no Antarctica and so on; and, of course, the new members needs to be added on map). Those updates maybe could be done based on this map when it will be agreed on everything, as I am not sure if this map accurately represents the current QSS for Asia (e.g. India) for example; but if it does not it will be fixed. Abdul-aziz 14:07, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

I have the original as a PSD. I will gladly send it to any and all interested. I made the map to match my maps of Asia, so it should be correct, as far as that goes, as my maps were based on the original map provided by India's overseer. (whose name eludes me.) BoArthur 14:29, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

By "this map" I meant the one I have created. But as it is based on the map of Asia it is probably OK - although it seems some other states/colonies are listed in India, ones that aren't currently marked (e.g. Bombay). Abdul-aziz 14:38, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Some of them are city-states, and I thought that it would be far too busy if I were to include them. BoArthur 14:39, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Excellent work. Congratulations. Some countries are missing, as other told. But no one told yet about the small Pacific Ocean countries missing. Perhaps you could add those. It would make IB world more complete.--Pedromoderno 17:11, 19 June 2006 (PDT)

Thank you. I have uploaded the third version of the map now; this version includes the Pacific, the Carribean nations and some other island dependancies. I am not sure what does abbreviation "SC" means in the Carribean map however. Scotland? Two Sicilies? Also, the names of colonies there seem to be different from other maps which names only Windward Islands as a single large FK colony. In addition to that, the northwest African map here: http://ib.frath.net/w/Image:Wmedpol.png contradics other maps of this area. I am not sure which ones to use. Right now I tried to unify them them in some way. Abdul-aziz 03:41, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

Fourth version is on now. It includes the smaller Indian countries (I have drawn the map based on the places where exactly these countries were in the real world) and I have remodelled Southeast Asia according to this map. I am however not sure where the Portuguese colonies of Dadra and Nagar Haveli and Damro are. Maybe it is the same as Damman and Bassein in this map ? Abdul-aziz 07:15, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

Remember that a number of these colonies are no longer existent at the present time. I would expect the case to be so for a lot of them, really. BoArthur 07:49, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

I thought that Algeria was a bit bigger than that and New Caledonia was still French. Also, I thought that no-one had agreed on the bounderies regarding New Guinea. --Sikulu 07:51, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

No, Algeria's more or less that size...the desert never got claimed, evidently. I also thought NC was French...and there are _some_ boundaries for Papua New Guinea...but not much. I think it's partitioned between one of the island nations and Australasia. BoArthur 08:31, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

Algeria's bigger according to this map. The Aragonese territory to the north of Magreb is also smaller according to the same map. --Sikulu 05:59, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

Abdul-aziz, I would use the map that Sikulu referenced...It's based off a map I started that was modified when we "discovered" Africa. The other map is very, very old, created by CHlewey and was out-of-date very shortly after he made it. BoArthur 06:06, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

The India article lists all the colonies I have marked on the map and in addition to that 2 additional Portuguese colonies as existant. Therefore probably a decition is needed on this. I will remove the colonies which will be decided that they do not exist. As for Oceania, I used the map available at Pacific States article where it seems that New Guinea is part of Moluku. It probably could be partitioned however. New Caledonia is not marked there as French but I will do so as probably there was no decition on that so it is QAA. As for algeria, there is this map that shows larger Algeria, Libya and smaller Maghreb and other maps that shows everything differently. My map now combines features from both types of maps - namely Aragon and Castille and Leon has dependancies in northwest Africa, but Algeria and Libya are smaller. Abdul-aziz 08:49, 20 June 2006 (PDT)

Part of what is on the Pacific States page was from a discussion which was never finished. Joe had made a few change to some islands' motherland (like New Caledonia) which were not based on any specific proposals and it been put on hold. The eastern part of Papua *was* annexed by Kingsland at one point but had since obtained its independence as mentioned here: Kingsland

Ok, I have uploaded the new version. Mainly the Oceania is edited (where I tried to reach a compromise version that would blend together everything what was said), but also the New Sweden and New Iceland NAL/SR condominiums are marked now. In Oceania New Caledonia is now French, as for the New Guinea it is partitioned in the following way: western part is a part of Maluku, the majority of the island is independent country of Papua (probably granted independence by Kingsland as mentioned in Kingsland article), the outlaying islands (what is in the real world Solomon Islands and Bismarck Archipelago) are still an Australasian territory (not granted independence together with the rest of New Guinea pehaps - maybe still a part of Kingsland or a separate entity inside Australasia). In the north of New Guinea there is also a Japanese territory (Admiral Yamamoto land) and several cities controlled by Bornei-Filipinas and Mazapahit. The explaination behind this is that the Chinese, being a more powerful seafaring power than in the real world, had colonised the northern coast of New Guinea before Austalasians (after all, New Guinea was perhaps the only major island in region not claimed by other powerful state in the area) and this Chinese colony was partitioned among the nations that fought against China in the Great Oriental War after China was defeated. But I know little about Papuan culture, therefore if someone will have better suggestions or would want to "take control" of New Guinea of course additions to the map will be welcome. Abdul-aziz 16:29, 21 June 2006 (PDT)

I think the islands off the coast of *here's* Papua New Guinea are *there* the "Saloman Islands" (though I could be wrong). --Sikulu 06:17, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

P.S., Arakan is Batavia (as far as I know). (Is it a Batavian enclave of Burma or a seperate state, in that case?) --Sikulu 06:22, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Probably Saloman Islands are the same as Solomon Islands in the real world. Still in that case I will need to update the map to add them as an FK colony. I will as well update northwest Africa according the the African map. By the way, another question - South Africa article says that the country sought independence from England in 1983 but in the Commonwealth articles it is still listed as "English member". Probably it should be moved to "Other full members" section. Abdul-aziz 07:12, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

By the way, you missed the Comoros Islands (see here). --Sikulu 07:43, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Where are these territories?

Here I will list the territories that I don't know where they are exactly. Once it will be explained the territories will be removed from this list. If there are maps depicting these territories anywhere please give me links, otherwise try to describe where I should draw them.

• Cambrian Indian Ocean Territory (a Cambrian colony)
• Margarita Islands (a Commonwealth member)
• Tortuga Islands

Answers

• Arakan - exactly where you put it
• CAOT - *Here*, they are the Queen Elizabeth Islands
• Dadra and Nagar Haveli - see here and here
• Damro - I think you mean Damão - see here and here
• Leeuwenbergland (aka, Batavian West Africa) - *Here's* Sierra Leone (i.e. just where you put it)
• Margarita Islands - (help, please. I'm stumped here. There are some examples of a Margarita Island, but none in plural)
• Tortuga Islands - *Here's* Isles of Scilly

Hope these all help. --Sikulu 07:31, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

The Tortuga Islands are in the Carribean, not the Isles of Scilly. Deiniol 08:34, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Thanks for the information. Uploaded a new map with corrections in the northwest Africa and those territories marked. As for Comoros, I don't understand what "[M]" means in the map of Africa. That they belong to Madagascar? If so perhaps they don't be marked separately as they are near Madagascar anyways. I have now marked Tortuga Islands where Scilly is as I haven't seen Deniol's words before editing, but if they are really in the Carribeans I will change it. Where exactly in the Carribean are they? Abdul-aziz 10:09, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

There's the dry tortugas west of the florida keys, and there's a tortuga island near cuba, I believe. BoArthur 11:30, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Where did you get Admiral Yamamoto Land? (The northern part of Papua New Guinea). I've never heard of it...but doesn't mean I didn't somehow miss it... BoArthur 13:36, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

As I have written above, the current borders inside Papua New Guinea are a proposal as it was said that the borders were never fully agreed upon. Therefore I based my suggestion on what was already said (that Papua was granted independence by Kingsland, that a part of New Guinea is ruled by some island nation of *here's* Indonesia, that some part of the area is perhaps ruled by Australasia) and added something from myself what seems logical (as I explained in previous post on this topic). So which Tortugas are the Tortuga Islands? Abdul-aziz 14:00, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Couldn't really tell you 100% about the Tortugas. As for Admrial Yamamoto Land, the name would be different, for sure, and I've left a message for Nik to see what he says, since he's in charge of Japan. BoArthur 14:26, 22 June 2006 (PDT)

Sorry for the delay in responding. Sounds good enough to me. I don't see any reason Yamamoto wouldn't've been a major naval leader *there* too. In fact, he might've been even more important *there* than *here*. I'm just not sure *how* or *when* Japan would've acquired that land Nik 21:57, 17 August 2006 (PDT)

Just for clarity, no part of Ppua is ruled by Australasia, I would have assumed that the division is like *here*: east sovereign, west either part of some other country or sovereign itself (a different ethnic group lives there then on the eastern part).

Not an objection but is the Cambrian Arctic territory a recent thing ? --Marc Pasquin 09:01, 23 June 2006 (PDT)

Indeed, according to the current version of the map, no part of the Papua island is ruled by Australasia. As for the name of the Japanese territory, of course it can be changed depending on suggestions, as I have said I don't know much about the area. As for the ethnic groups in the Papua, there are many of them in *here's* Papua, about one fifth of all living languages are spoken in the island of New Guinea. Therefore, unless the situation is different in IB dividing the island on ethnic boundaries would be practically impossible. Anyways, I would suggest not to decide too much about the culture of New Guinea in IB, maybe someone who is interested in it and knows more about it will want to take charge of the area. The real world division of Papua would be practically impossible, as in real world Papua was divided between two colonial powers - the Netherlands and England - in two halves by a straight vertical line. In IB stronger powers existed in the area far before the European colonisation and some of these powers exist to these days. Abdul-aziz 10:15, 23 June 2006 (PDT)

Cambodia

Should read Khmer. --Quentin 13:08, 23 June 2006 (PDT)

It used to in the previous versions on this map. But the most detailed map of the area that is at Southeast Asia seems to name the country Cambodia. If there is a decition on name Khmer somewhere I could change however. Abdul-aziz 13:17, 23 June 2006 (PDT)

Oh. Also, CaL is a bit confusing for Castille and Leon, it often means the proposed "Carribean League". How about C&L instead? What about Lundy? --Quentin 05:24, 25 June 2006 (PDT)

Now I am on holiday, so the new changes for the map will be done after a couple of weeks or more. But you may keep proposing them here, i will do them later. Abdul-aziz 03:19, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

Corrections

These states need to be coloured grey (i.e., for Condominium):

• #29 - Sipsaqanbana (Siam and Nahanguo)
• #39 - Janhve (Burma and Siam)
• #31 - Myqan Kaja (Burma and Siam)
• #32 - Hsipaqa (Burma and Siam)
• Tenasserim (SR and Siam)
• Xri Dharmaraza (Xrivizaja and Siam)
• Cambrian Arctic Ocean Territory (Part of the UT)

These need to be added:

• St. Thomas and Prince
• The names of SR territories
• Myqan Va (Siam and Nahanguo)
• The name of the Armorican colonies (the Samonios Islands [Falklands] and Elaeneth [St. Helena])

Also, Xrirampur Romanisation needs to be applied.

Have a nice holyday. --Sikulu 08:30, 26 June 2006 (PDT)

Ideas

Firstly, have a nice holiday.

It would be helpful if the SR member states were labelled with their names in addition to just "SR". Also, it might be a good idea to do a second map where the "blocs", eg Dalmatophone, Francophone, CON, SR, Castillian, &c could be used.

Also, it is a bit misleading to call New Sweden and New Iceland "condominiums", isn't it? But correct me if I'm wrong.

That's just a strange part of the NAL-SLC. Each state has its own policy as to its Head of State, be it the ruler of Kemr, England, Scotland, the Scandinavian Realm or someone else (like the GM or something). As to the condominium status of New Sweden and New Iceland, I think its because the NAL is part of the CoN, but the SR isn't. (Hope that clears things up.) --Sikulu 03:02, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

China

Meizhou is missing from the map. Also, where does the Nanhanguo/Beihanguo border lie? And is Wikipedia:Zhejiang in Futainan or Shanghai? --Quentin 03:07, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

Meizhou is Moi Gok (which is the local name). By the look of things, *here's* Zhejiang Province is the Republic of Shanghai *there*. --Sikulu 03:14, 28 June 2006 (PDT)

Update

I am back home for a few days. Updated a map, primarilly its Southeast Asian part, but also changed the place of the Salomon Islands as it seems Salomon is not the same as Solomon after all, both exist in the real world too, also removed Tortuga islands (so, where exactly are they?). The reason the names of the SR parts are not written is because, as far as I understand, SR is a kind of federation and it is not so that Denmark/Sweden/Finland/Norway/Gotherborg would be its metropolitan area and everything else would be colonies. So as I understand SR is something like IB's Russia or NAL and therefore names of the areas does not have to be written (dependanicies, that seems to be real colonies, are an exception and their names are written). For similar rason I did not wrote the names of the Armorican areas - or is the situation of the Armorican isles different? As for Xrirampur Romanisation I am not sure, Pinyin for example is not applied at many real world maps. But if you would want to apply it, you are welcome to do so by editing this map - I have certain problems in my computer with special characters. Abdul-aziz 02:29, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Ok, so perhaps the Salomon Islands should be where they are *here*. So, who owns the Solomon Islands *there* then? (Papua?) --Sikulu 02:58, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

According to a current version of the map and the proposal I have explained previously, it would be Australasia (either Kingsland, or the islands would have been made a separate province at some time). Abdul-aziz 04:50, 12 July 2006 (PDT)

Recent change of the map

User Vedejas for some reason had uploaded a new version of the map with distorted colours; I think it does not looks too well when various neighboring countries are coloured in the same colour and when there are so many gray countries so it is hard to understand which are condominums/disputed areas. What is the reason for the change of colours? If the change in map was only to add Tavoria then, if Tavoria is accepted, I would restore the original colours and update the map (unfortunately, I cannot do that now as I am not permitted to edit the World map page itself by the system). Abdul-aziz 16:14, 19 July 2006 (PDT)

Tortuga Islands

I believe I know where these are now. After watching Pirates of the Caribbean - Dead Man's Chest, I looked arround my Encyclopedia Britannica and realised that they should be the Cayman Islands, which where called Las Tortugas by Chris Columbus. They are the only ones that fit, since (a) They are plural (so Tortuga off the coast of Haiti (which is the one in PotC) or Venezuela don't fit); (b) they were ruled by Kemr (so that rules out the Dry Tortugas in the Florida Keys. (Please pardon me if someone else has already come up with this solution.) --Sikulu 06:10, 8 August 2006 (PDT)

Might be. It seems the Cayman islands were somewhere marked as a territory under this name, therefore I marked them as such on the map. And the Tortuga Islands article describes it as "an island" rather than "islands" therefore it is unclear werether it is a single island or a group of islands or maybe a single larger island with a group of outlaying small isles. Anyways, unless someone will object, I will mark the Tortuga Islands in place of the Cayman Islands once I get home. Abdul-aziz 05:55, 10 August 2006 (PDT)

On further examination, Tortuga Island (which *here* belongs to Venezuela) looks like the better descision. However, most images of the Caribbean show it (and the rest of the Venezuelan Federal Dependencies and the Nueva Esparta State) as part of the Batavian Antilles (see here). This is rather confusing. (Who came up with the idea of the Tortuga Islands for IB anyway?). --Sikulu 07:45, 10 August 2006 (PDT)

P.S. I think that the Margarita Islands would be *here's* Nueva Esperta and the Federal Dependancies of Venezuela. Will Daniel (and Jan 1?) please check this, as the maps of the Cal-SLC show them as Batavian. --Sikulu 08:51, 17 August 2006 (PDT)

I based my map off the one that Padraic created. Padraic, could you weigh in on this please? BoArthur 10:35, 17 August 2006 (PDT)

Hmm., on the maps of the CaL-SLC, there are definitely too many Batavian Antilles. I've always assumed that *there* it's the same six islands as *here*. —IJzeren Jan ^Uszkiełtu? 01:01, 18 August 2006 (PDT)

Prime Meridian

"The Prime Meridian in Ill Bethisad goes through Paris rather than Greenwich."

1) Is this indeed so? 2) If so, should it be marked on the map?

Of course it should! Kyrmse 04:43, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Indeed the Prime Meridian in IB is the one that goes throught Paris, but it would be very hard (at least knowing my lack of picture manipulating skills) to change the meridians marked on the map as the map is based on a real world map, thus the meridians are already marked... Abdul-aziz 12:13, 30 October 2006 (PST)

If Wishes Were Horses...

One thing I would like to see one day is a vector-based world map - hope that's the right expression - which would be both easier to edit and better-looking (by which latter I mean "smooth" meridians, parallels and regions' outlines). This does not mean I am disconsidering the enormous amount of work which surely has gone into this map series! Kol ha-kavod. Kyrmse 05:59, 31 October 2006 (PST)

It's never too much to repeat what I myself have said above! Kyrmse 10:30, 22 February 2007 (PST)

Pacific

I've made some changes to the Pacific on my computer but thought I would mention them here before I upload.

• Change spelling Philipinas --> Filipinas
• Label Marianas and Palau as condominiums of Micronesian Confederation and Bornei-Filipinas (they are tributary to both)
• Label Tokelau as a separate dependency of Fiji
• Label Fijian, French, and Castilian Polynesia (although have not indicated the precise borders because they are not known)
• Label and color Guam as a Castilian colony
• Label and color Nittato as a dependency of Kanawiki (or should that be Kanawiki/Japanese condominium?)
• Change name Rapa Nui --> Te Pito O Te Henua
  

Benkarnell 13:47, 1 December 2007 (PST)

It's ok I believe. Abdul-aziz 14:32, 4 December 2007 (PST)

Done. Benkarnell 14:40, 5 December 2007 (PST)