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Post GW2 Emperors

The suggestion has been made that the Emperor or Kaiser of the HRE since the Second Great War is elective from among the member royalties. I personally like this idea but must note not all members of the HRE seem to have a royalty. Hence the following list:

So of 22 member-states in the Holy Roman Empire, 12 definitely still have some kind of titled heads of state, one definitely does not, and the other 11 are uncertain. At least one seems to retain the title of Elector which brings up the question--is that among the titles of the others? If so, which ones? Zahir 12:40, 27 November 2005 (PST)

My guess would be that all the heads-of-state of the member-states possess the right to vote for the Emperor. Preimern, for whatever reason, simply chose to retain the anachronisitic title Elector for its HOS Nik 19:10, 27 November 2005 (PST)
So, if I understood it correctly, all extra-current_HRE Electors (e.g. Bohemia) were excluded of HRE after GW2. Was there a redefinition of HRE after GW2? -- Jan II.

Well, summing up what you write above, I think you're right about Hannover, Prussia, Wuerttemberg, Baden, Anhalt, Braunschweig, Mecklenburg, Oldenburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Lippe, Bavaria, Bremen and Hamborg.

As for the rest:

  • Lybeck is a free city too. The principality of Lübeck was absorbed by Holstein after GW2, and only the free city remained
  • Preimern is a duchy, not an electorate. Where did you find that info?
  • Saxony is definitely not a principality. See Talk:Saxony. It is either a kingdom or an electorate.
  • Thuringia is indeed a weird mish-mash. Well, it's a federation after all - perhaps we should leave it at that.
  • Waldeck-Pyrmont is indeed a principality. See Germany.

That leave us with four difficult cases:

  • Hessen. The page writes: "the People’s State of Hesse is not a Communist country, and is lead by a president", so we may safely assume that it is a republic.
  • Westphalia, the Rhineland-Palatinate and Saarland were all created after GW2. My guess is that they are all republics. Note: republics are less common in IB than in OTL, but that does not mean there's shouldn't be any at all.

If we assume that Saxony is a kingdom indeed, we get the following:

(of course, most of that is QAA rather than QSS)

All this has, of course, quite an interesting effect on the function of HRE emperor. If the emperor is elected from amongst the royalty, it means that only 13 out of 22 states is served. If the emperor is elected from among áll heads of statelet, it means that a president (a civilian!) can also become emperor. Frankly, I don't know yet how to solve this problem. --IJzeren Jan 06:26, 28 November 2005 (PST)

Well, some possibilities: (1) The Emperor is indeed drawn from the royals of the HRE, hence there are 13 candidates. (2) The Emperor is drawn from the royal families of the HRE, hence any adult of those 13 lines. (3) The Emperor is drawn from any European royalty and/or their families, perhaps for a limited term. (4) The Emperor is chosen from among the adults of a particular set of families who have held the title in the past--such as the Bourbons maybe--or some other criteria, such as having been Emperors of something at some time or other--which might include the Romanovs or even the Bonapartes! Zahir 06:52, 28 November 2005 (PST)
There's another problem with (1): unless I'm mistaken, the Scandinavian King is also duke of Oldenburg and Schleswig-Holstein.
Right now, I can also think of another possibility: (5) the HRE doesn't have an emperor at all. Instead, it is ruled by some collective body. --IJzeren Jan 07:01, 28 November 2005 (PST)
The Zahir's solution no.2 seems to be fine. Current HRE Emperor is a puppet-head (and he was designed to be), his power reaches at maximum the choice of underwear (and so). The Reichstag seems to be the elective body (we discussed this somewhere on conculture), each state has one deputy with equal vote. I can imagine, that Reichstag can make obstacles and elect no Emperor to show the world how they suffer. But there might be a clause in Reichsgesetz, that there MUST be an elected Emperor to chair the meetings of Reichstag, else it cannot assembly and co-ordinate the least it can co-ordinate inside of the new HRE. Your opinion? -- Jan II.
No. 1 wouldn't really be a problem. Since the HRE is entirely powerless, there'd be no harm in having the Arch-King of Scandinavia also holding the (largely honorific) title of Emperor. If that is perceived as a problem, than perhaps the Scandinavian monarch is excluded from consideration, either de jure or de facto. My personal preference would be for the HRE to be elected from the Heads of State of the various members (which would mean, therefore, that a republican HOS could conceivably become Emperor - if the President of France *here* can be Co-Prince of Andorra, why not?) upon the death or abdication (or end of term for republican HOS's) of the predecessor. A second possibility is a rotating Emperorship Nik 18:29, 28 November 2005 (PST)
It occurs to me that among the nobility of the HRE's member states there might be quite a social contest for the Imperial Diadem. One can imagine in particular trying to get one's heir elected. Zahir 18:48, 28 November 2005 (PST)
Even if you can elect a republic's HOS to the Imperial Diadem, what about Thuringia's group governance?Theophilus88
My vote would be to limit the candidates to be from the German noble families,probably excluding prussia and the SR dynasty. The first would be cut out for fear of a repeat of the 2 Great Wars and the second for fear of annexion. Both could be stricly de facto practices mind you.
Regarding Nik's point, co-prince (in this context) is more a position (like viceroy) then an actual noble title. Emperor is definitly of the later type.--Marc Pasquin 03:25, 29 November 2005 (PST)
I would argue with that, Marc. Emperor is not a noble title, but rather position. Definitely, if it comes to HRE Emperor. He is elected, he is steward of the Reich; noble fiefs are inherited, they are more attached to blood than to soil. -- Jan II.
Good point. However, I think that the emperor is still (if only in ceremonial terms) perceived as more then just a civil servant. Because of that, I think the conservative elements (even on the Allies side) would oppose having non-noble wear the crown.--Marc Pasquin 16:26, 29 November 2005 (PST)

Perhaps we are starting this discussion at the wrong end. After all, there be still a lot of dragons in the HRE; in fact, we know awfully little about it. What kind of state is it anyway? Is it a state or a supranational organisation à la the European Union *here*? Do the member states have their own foreign policy? Their own army? Does the HRE even have a separate government, and if so, what are its prerogatives? Would the foreign minister of Württemberg go on a state visit to the Scandianvian Realm, or to France? All these questions would need to be answered first, and only then we can really tell for sure what kind of position the emperor has. Or, for that matter, if there is an emperor at all. Personally, I feel more and more inclined to assume that there is no emperor at all, or perhaps only an emperor in the form of some imperial ruling body.

I think we can safely state that the HRE was more or less a unified body (under Prussian hegemony) until the end of GW2. Prussia itself was split in four parts, and the rest of the former statelets were given independence (all within the limitations of the HRE of course, whatever those might be). The Allies kept huge parts of Germany occupied until 1955, and then they left. But what exactly did they leave? Did the German statelets even wánt their independence? What is the role of Prussia today? Can we assume that the southern states are a much tighter knit than their northern counterparts, and that the latter are stronger connected to the SR, the Baltic League, or the European Federation? A lot of questions, eh? --IJzeren Jan 05:08, 29 November 2005 (PST)

I thought it was pretty much established that the HRE is pretty much an historical association of states and--these days--pretty much nothing else. Its members are pretty much allies, and probably enjoy some kind of "Most Favored Nation" trade status with one another, but otherwise are independent states who have a figurehead--the Emperor--serving as symbol of their past unity and current association. But the Emperor has no inherent political power at all. That was my take. Zahir 08:08, 29 November 2005 (PST)
I don't have much time nowadays, so here are a few comments: First of all, with regards to Schleswig-Holstein, please keep in mind that only Holstein is part of the HRE. Schleswig is a Danish fief. Secondly, please keep in mind that the Oldenburgs (the SR dynasty) belong to the German nobility, so I suppose they could be elected as emperors. I agree with Jan that the southern states are much tighter knit than their northern counterparts, and that the latter are stronger connected to the SR and the Baltic League. But, unlike Jan, I think its the southern states that are more closesly associated with the European Federation. Just as in the 19th century *here*, there may still be a north south divide among the German states. What really binds them all together is, as David says, history -- and pretty much nothing else. Boreanesia 08:40, 29 November 2005 (PST)
As a matter of fact, I think you're right about the southern states being more closely associated with the EF. That was mostly a thinko on my part! And I like the idea of a North-South divide, too. Curious where exactly the line lies. --IJzeren Jan 10:56, 29 November 2005 (PST)

Regarding Brunswick

Does the house of Brunswick-Wolfenburg still exist in IB? Otherwise, without any (apparent) analogy to the Seven Week's War, and thus no annexation of Hanover to Prussia (at that time anyway) Brunswick-Wolfenburg would defalt to Hanover with the death of the Wolfenburg line. Or, did Brunswick become independent of Hanover after the annexation of Hanover by Prussia in GWII? --Sikulu

These are very good questions. You seem to know more about this aspect of Germany than any of us in the group. You are more than welcome to make a proposal. Boreanesia 14:12, 15 December 2005 (PST)
Most certainly! The existence of Brunswick is a typical example of QAA: we simply assumed it on the basis of the situation *here*. Of course, I've worked on a map of the HRE that features it, and there is also a flag. But if anyone can think of a very good reason to alter our assumptions, it can be done. Anyway, looking at the map, I see that Brunswick consists of no less than five separated pieces of land, which seems pretty weird in the modern world, even in IB! Whatever its status, it must be thorougly intertwined with Hanover. So yes, if you like to make a proposal, please go ahead with it! --IJzeren Jan 23:36, 15 December 2005 (PST)
My proposal is that Brunsick-Wolfenburg is a part of Hanover after the end of the Wolfsburg line until Hanover is annexed by Prussia in GWII. The Hanoverian royal family (or at least a minor member) move to Brunswick, which becomes independent of Hanover for the duration of the Hanoverian annexation. Afterward, a minor member of the house of Brunswick-Luneburg is made ruler of Brunswick. P.S. Saxony was made a kingdom.--Sikulu
But why wouldn't Prussia have annexed Hanover wholesale, then? What reason could they have had to restore Brunswick instead of adding it to its collection as well? If you ask me, that's not very likely. If Brunswick was restored at all, that would much rather have been the work of the Allies after GW2. But mind you, I can live very well without Brunswick; or, with a Brunswick that enjoys some special status within the Kingdom of Hannover. --IJzeren Jan 06:38, 16 December 2005 (PST)
Ok, try making it a semi-autonomous part of Hanover pre-GWII, then have the Allies make independent post-GWII. --Sikulu 16 December 2005, 14:42
That's possible indeed. But even then, I wonder why the Allies would have done that. You see, in their mind Hanover was a victim of Prussian agression as well as any other countries annexed or occupied by it. Why would they have "punished" it by decreasing its territory and restoring an independent Brunswick? No, the way it looks now is much rather that there is no duchy of Brunswick at all. I'm not sure in how far that would be a violation of QSS though. As for me, I wouldn't mind updating the HRE map; it needs to be updated anyway, because the borders of the Batavian Kingdom are depicted incorrectly. I'd like some input from other HRE experts! --IJzeren Jan 07:24, 16 December 2005 (PST)
I've been reserching the HRE for one of my Althists (Rule Hispania). Personaly, I'd just merge Brunswick into Hanover, it's not like it's going to change much. --Sikulu 16 December 2005, 15:30 (GMT)
By the way, most member states of the HRE had bits all over the place, and the situation stayed that way until the end of WWII *here*. (I know this because I've borrowed an atlas from 1943 from my father; It clearly shows Brunswick, Oldenburg and Anhalt with bits all over the place, just like they were in the German Confederation, and later in the Empire. --Sikulu 23 December 2005, 10:43 (GMT)


(Moved to: Talk:Luxemburg#Luxembourg)

How's This

I belive I've found *a* solution to the bounary problems of the HRE. Observe if you will, the Imperial Circles:

  • Hanoverian IC - Brunswick-Luneburg, Brunswick-Wolfenburg, Celle, Bremen-Verden, ect.
  • Saxon IC - Saxony, Thuringian States
  • Scandinavian IC - Oldenburg, Holstein, Lubeck
  • Hessian IC - Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Darmstat, Nassau
  • Other ICs - Jervaine (Siovader), Luxembourg, Batavia (Limbourg)

What do you think? --Sikulu 19 December 2005, 14:22 (GMT)

Austria became an elector after 1612?

To me it seems important, that Austria became kingdom 1588, and an Elector after 1612. Any objections? Jan II. 23:40, 1 January 2006 (PST)

Jan II, how does that change from history, *here*? BoArthur 17:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


Assuming Saxony was a big a suporter of Napoleon *there* as *here*, I'd think it would be full-sized (minus Lusatia), rather than Prussia annexing the top three-fifths that it did *here*. Or is there another reason that Prussia got that bit?

See here:
--Sikulu 6 Jan 2006, 15:19 (GMT)
You mean like on this map, not only the Kingdom but also that huge brown thing next to it? Well, why not? It was probably be taken by Prussia at some point, but it may very well have been restored to Saxony after GW2. Is that what you suggest? It's not impossible, because I'll have to update the map of Germany anyway. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 10:19, 6 January 2006 (PST)
No, they would be the Thuringian States. Since (presubably) Saxony is still an ally of France during the Napoleonic wars, why would the area awarded to Prussia *here* still be awarded *there*? --Sikulu 9 Jan 2006, 11:29 (GMT)
Sorry. If you mean the bit inside Saxon Lusatia, that would probably be the bit that Prussia got in 1635, which was around Cottbus. (Saxony and Prussia nicked it from Austria). --Sikulu 10 Jan 2006, 09:30 (GMT)
One would assume that saxony would have lost it later on to prussia after the fall of napoleon. --Marc Pasquin 16:46, 9 January 2006 (PST)

Helpful Maps

Check out these:

--Sikulu 10 Jan 2006, 11:23 (GMT)

As an aside

Shouldn't Hesse keep its Thuringian Enclave?? See here for why. --Sikulu 01:02, 1 February 2006 (PST)

P.S. Shouldn't a German Confederation map have been used instead of one of the German Empire? The map I found (see above) would possibly be better than the one (from the same website, I guess) used to make the IB version. --Sikulu 00:33, 10 February 2006 (PST)

Concerning the HRE Emperor.

It stands to reason that the Emperor is elected from the Heads of states of the member states; but as some states are republics with leaders elected for terms, why not have the emperor elected for terms too?

Another possibility is we have a NAL type situation; the Emperor is the local Head of State, and they each are the HREeror for their respective area.

Also, it is a possibility that the SR and HRE have the same monarch; Aragon and 2S do, as do England and Scotland; both are independant. --Quentin 05:00, 11 September 2006 (PDT)

Perhaps. But read here for the situation in *there's* Italy. --Sikulu 06:23, 11 September 2006 (PDT)
The HREmperor isn't the King of the SR, nor do I think that any of the constituent states would go for that idea. Since Germany's not really my sandbox, maybe we can get Padraic to weigh in, or cross-post this to Conculture? BoArthur 08:29, 11 September 2006 (PDT)
Sorry to be a pain, but what email adress do you send it to?
[email protected] BoArthur 08:56, 12 September 2006 (PDT)
I'm not suggesting that the HREmperor is the King of the SR; nor that it is likely. I'm simply suggesting it's theoretically possible.
This would be a list of eligable people; some, such as the Queen of Prussia and the Queen of the SR are fairly unlikely.
  • Duke of Anhalt - Duke Edward II 1963-
  • Grand Duke of Baden - Grand Duke Maximillian II of Baden, 1963-
  • First Comrade/president/primate/primus of Bavaria - 1993- Edmund Stoiber (Our minister president)
  • Duke of Brunswick and King of Hannover - Ernest Augustus V, 1987- (Duke of Cumberland here)
  • Mayor (?) of Bremen - Jens Böhrnsen (QAA again) 2005-
  • Archbishop of Hamburg - Werner Thissen (2002-)
  • President of Hesse - Roland Koch (President here), 1999-
  • Prince of Lippe - ???
  • Mayor (?) of Lybaek, Duchess of Oldenburg, Duchess of Schleswig and Holstein
  • Duke of Mecklenburg - Frederick Francis IV's descendants (?) - invent descent?
  • Duke of Pomerania - Either an Elective monarch or the same as mecklenburg?
  • King of Prussia - Queen Wilhelmina I (1988-)
  • President (?) of Rhineland-Palatinate -
  • President (?) of Saarland - Peter Müller (PM here)
  • King of Saxony - Queen Maria Emanuel (if there is no salic law)
  • Thuringia - I'd suggest making a King, prince, federal leader or otherwise elected from the under-princes who would in turn be eligable for HREmperor.
  • Prince of Waldeck - Prince Wittekind
  • President (?) of Westphalia - Kurt Beck (PM here)
  • GD of Wuerttemberg - GD Karl.

--Quentin 04:59, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

Remember, though, that the emperor can come from outside the HRE proper. Last time I checked, Bohemia had voting status, and Napoleon was elected emperor. Seth 17 March, 2007

since 1612, because of treaty between Rudolph and Mathias, Bohemia has mute elector vote, ie. automatically approves the winner among the rest. but, of course. emperors may come from outside of HRE, but such a candidate would have quite difficult position. Napoleon was indeed very strong ;) Jan II. 10:27, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

Have we yet to decide on a list of Emperors yet? [User:Seth|Seth]] 2:43, 3 August 2007

Not other than Napoleon and the various Prussian Kings. Zahir 06:43, 3 August 2007 (PDT)
How about we just hold a vote on what system of government the HRE uses:
  • 1) All member states are nominally independent, with own military and foreign policy
  • 2) All member states are nominally independent, but only have limited military and foreign policy capabilities
  • 3) All are like states *here*, with little to no foreign policies or military, and are linked to a more-or-less federalized system
And now for HREmperor:
  • 1) Only a figurehead, with little to no political clout
  • 2) Figurehead, but does have large influence over the member states (like approving HOS)
  • 3) Figurehead, but does does head the government at some level
And for HREmperor election:
  • 1) Can be anyone, anywhere
  • 2) Can be anyone, so long they have land holdings within the HRE
  • 3) Can be anyone of noble birth
  • 4) Can only be of noble birth who is also a possible heir to any member state
Do you all like this method? Seth 23:26, 20 August 2007
I would say that at present, the HRE is somewhere between 1 and 2 and the HREmperor is 3 and that the HREmperor is elected from the electors of the states. The modern HRE is supposed to be a somehwat dysfunctional and decentralised state. That's why they had such difficulties getting their satellite into orbit -- the imperial government is too weak and ineffective and the states are constitutionally unable to band together for the national good. Or ill.
I don't think this state of affairs can go on much longer -- sooner or later, Germans are going to get fed up and demand that the Emperor _do_ something or step aside in favour of some Chancellor or Kaiser who will. Me, I'd like to see the present HREmperor step up to the plate and declare the Allies' little scheme to keep Germany beaten down at an end. I'm sure the German people are looking at the rest of the world and how they've done since the GWII and are wondering why Germany has been artificially hampered. Elemtilas 17:34, 20 August 2007 (PDT)

I agree. The HRE is a combo of #1 and #2. The Emperor is #3. As for election, I'd say the Electors (various officials of the member states) elect a person who either holds or is heir to an HRE title. I'm wondering if the Allied Powers might have specifically precluded royal titles from the mix or just the monarch of Prussia?? Or was that an unwritten rule?? Zahir 18:49, 20 August 2007 (PDT)
I doubt it -- the British at least were sensitive to royalty and the culture surrounding it. Elemtilas 14:43, 21 August 2007 (PDT)

Current Holy Roman Emperor

I feel, that with a lot of interest going on at the current moment for Luxemburg, we should turn at least a little focus to that great political entity it is a part of, the Holy Roman Empire, if only to figure out whom the current emperor is at the moment. I've been looking at the maps, and Fulda, based in Hesse, is the current capital of the HRE. Going on what I believe to be a longstanding tradition of the HRE to hold the capital in either the monarch whom was elected capital, or have one set aside temporarily for whatever reason, I feel that the HREmperor should come from near Fulda, though not Hesse (seeing as how Hesse is a "people's state"). Perhaps it is not difficult to imagine comes from a state nearby, perhaps Baden. What say you all? Seth 06:45, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I must say that does make sense. Perhaps the capital (at least in terms of ceremony) is the birthplace of the current Emperor? There was a poll last year on the conculture list, about who could be Emperor. The winner was Any citizen of the HRE with 3 votes. Other options that got votes were Anyone, so long they have land holdings within the HRE (2 votes), Anyone of noble birth who is also a possible heir to any member state of the HRE (1 vote), Only Electors themselves or their heirs (2 votes), and Members of a set list of families and/or titles (1 vote). A different poll was about the actual role of the Emperor with the winner being Only a figurehead, with little to no political clout (4 votes) as opposed to Figurehead, but does have large influence over the member states (like approving HOS) (3 votes) and Figurehead, but does does head the government at some level (2 votes). The question about the nature of the HRE itself was won by All member states are nominally independent, but only have limited military and foreign policy capabilities with 7 votes as opposed to All member states are nominally independent, with own military and foreign policy (2 votes). Zahir 08:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't it make sense for the Emperor (whoever he may be) would have little to no power, as the Allies did really whittle down the HRE into a loose organization of city states. Misterxeight 21:30, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking about making just one more emperor/empress, one who has reigned from the end of Konrad's term to the present day. Only question: where should they come from? Seth 06:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

How about Westphalia? Not that I really see any particular reason, just always liked the name. <g> Zahir 14:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Difficult. I was planning on making the new Emperor be of a noble line, which sorta means that he has to come from a realm that is of noble holdings... Seth 00:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
What about Saxony? Similar to Zahir, no particular reason; I just like the COA and flag. (OK, so my taste is a little bizarre. Sue me). Geoff 01:19, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Agree that Westphalia couldn't be the one, unless they had a president in office from 1981 til today. I suggest that with Konrad's reign going so well, the Electors picked another republican head of state (say, Westphalia); then they decided that long-term stability was needed and went with a younger scion of a venerable line (say, the Saxon kingdom). I don't think that any of the postwar emperors have been monarchial heads of state yet - there have been some heads of noble families, plus Konrad.
Otherwise, I nominate Friedrich, Duke of Nassau (and uncle of Grand Duchess Haedrana of Luxemburg) :). Another "harmless" noble in that his duchy is in name only, its territory entirely a part of the People's State of Hessen. Benkarnell 04:14, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Wanna help me make a write-up for him? Seth 06:10, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Friedrich? I suggested him mainly out of vanity; I don't think he's a likely contender for the purple. IMO Germany was fed up by then with heads of random noble houses ruling over them. After the good experience with Konrad (I see him as the "Willy Brandt of IB"), I'd think they'd either want an actual reigning monarch. A reigning monarch would have the actual governing experience beneficial to the job, and would hopefully provide long-term stability lacking with a republican HoS. I'd suggest either Saxony, or else Johann VIII of Hannover, to showcase a unique IB conlang/culture. Benkarnell 21:58, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Either Saxony or Hannover both seem like good candidates. Either one allows us to expand our knowledge of IB, the latter in perhaps-unexpected ways and the former in almost-brand-new ways. Either way, methinks we're talking about someone relatively young in 1976, which was over three decades ago. Assuming he was between thirty and forty then, that makes him sixty-or-seventy-something right now. Keep in mind this would have been right after the death of Wilhelm IV and during the early years of the reign of Friedrich IV. Other major monarchs of that period were Margrethe II of the Scandinavian Realm (just crowned), ditto Rudolf III of Xliponia and Elizabeth I of England and Scotland. Zahir 19:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I might go with Saxony. Who's the current reigning monarch of Saxony? I'll use their brother (or perhaps a sister?) or cousin perhaps... Seth 19:25, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
It could not be a relative, since the rules specify the head of a noble family. So if the Emperor were chosen from Saxony's royal house, he must be the reigning king. Or am I mistaken? Anyway, IMO the Electors in 1976 would want a reigning monarch, in order to get someone with real authority on the throne. They had just had good luck with the President of Saarland, after all.
Saxony is about 100% undeveloped in IB, although Quentin above noted that the current pretender *here* is Maria Emanuel. Assuming he has an IB doppelganger, Maria Emanuel was 30 years old and already king of Saxony in 1976, which would make him a good candidate. Benkarnell 19:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Stephan I was not the ruling head of state of Lippe, but went on to be one of the most popular HREmperors ever. Seth 22:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
You're right, I noticed that too. Nevertheless, I think the 70s is the right time for an actual ruler to get elected. Benkarnell 23:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
With a name like that, why not have an Empress? Seth 01:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Saxony would be a perfect candidate! being that it's completely undeveloped, it has great potential! also love the concept of an Empress! what a way to swing things around considering that woman were not allowed to succeed to the thrown in salic law (in hanover anyways, i think). in 1976 he/she was 30, so he/she's 62 in 2008. Geofturner 13:19 23rd Dec 08 (AEDST)
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but *here* Maria Emanuel was born in 1926, thus would be fifty in 1976 and about eighty-two this year. On the other hand, perhaps, unlike *our* version, this Maria Emanuel was succeeded by a daughter? Just a thought, anyway. Or Maria might be a female and really is an octagenarian. Zahir 06:34, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, you have to understand that in this case, in terms of 76 minus 26, given that it's Germany...
Fine. I subtracted carelessly. Well, what was the King of Hannover up to in those days? We at least know that Hannover does not have the same royal line we have *here*. Benkarnell 18:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Hmmmmm...... not too sure about the King of Hannover yet... lineage and houses aren't my strong point, and i'd sort of put them on the back-burner for the moment. but i'd sort of seen hannover as being quite disconnected from the HRE politically. having their own lineage, they seemed to think that they were independant of any other heads of state. althought this isn't written down anywhere, so if anyone has any ideas, then put them forward and lets go with it :) Geofturner 09:15 24th December 08 (AEDST)

German Expulsions

Did they happen *there*? Probably not in Bohemia and the Erdeka or even the CSDS, but what about places like the Romanias, Slevania, and Hungary? These areas were ruled by SNORist governments, and we all know what SNOR policy was towards minorities... On a related note, did Heim Ins Reich happen *there*? I have a feeling it was too much of a Nazi ideal, so I would hazard the guess no. Juan Martin Velez Linares 18:56, 09 October 2015 (CDT)

Austro-Prussian War

Given the nature of the HRE *there*, one is left to wonder, did the Austro-Prussian War happen *there*? Was there a fight between the Hohenzollerns and the Habsburghs? BoArthur 19:16, 13 November 2015 (PST)