Florida-Caribbea

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La Presidencia de la Tierra Florida y las Antillas
Presidency of Florida and the Antilles
Flag florida.jpg
National motto: ...
Languages
Official Castilian
Other English, Scandinavian
Capital Miami
Important Cities Havana
Last President Jaime Bush
Independence from Castile and Leon
(declared) 1898
(recognized) 1898
Currency 1 peso = 16 soles
Organizations CELCAGOM

Florida is a geographic region consisting of the southeasternmost peninsula of North America; it was also a state of the now-defunct nation of La Presidencia de la Tierra Florida y las Antillas (originally Imperio Castellano de las Floridas; then República Nacionalista y Revolucionista de las Floridas), or simply Florida-Caribbea as it was commonly known in English, and was composed of mainland Florida and all of the Caribbean islands.

Contents

Early History

Florida was first made known to Europeans in 1513, when the Castillian conquistador Juan Ponce de León discovered it on Easter Sunday, Pascua Florida in Spanish. This Florida was the source of the name. In 1559, Pensacola, in West Florida, was founded, but was destroyed by a hurricane a few years later and abandoned for a period. In 1565, the city of San Augustín, on the eastern coast, was founded, and has remained continuously inhabited. San Augustín is generally considered the oldest permanent European settlement in North America, but West-Floridians, especially Pensacolians, often insist that Pensacola is the oldest. The Castillians came into conflict with both the French and the English over the borders of Florida, which originally extended all the way west to the Mississippi, and as far north as modern-day Carolina.

In 1705, England acquired Florida down to the 29th parallel from Castile, as a result of England having captured Pensacola and San Augustín. England divided Florida into two halves, West Florida and East Florida and setllers entered the newly opened provinces. Castile founded a settlement in the Tampa Bay area in 1708, and named the southern penninsula la Florida del Sur (South Florida). When the NAL was founded in 1803, East and West Florida were founding members and by this time had a large Federated-American population. This state of affairs did not last long. Taking advantage of the new nation's weakness, and the also recently-formed Federated Kingdoms's concerns with France, the Castillians invaded, re-annexing East and West Florida. The NAL was unable to preserve East Florida, but part of West Florida held out, with the help of Cherokee Nation. The eastern part of what was left of West Florida was ceded to Cherokee Nation in gratitude for their assistance. In 1819, Castile sold the land west of the Perdido River to the NAL, giving them access to the Gulf of Mejico. The NAL province of West Florida renamed itself Mobile Province after the new capital of Mobile. Portions of Florida continued to change hands for several years, but the new NAL was unable to win any decisive victory and the American Floridians were left to their own devices. Periodic border skirmishes occured with the NAL provinces of Jacobia and Cherokee Nation, but things remained largely calm.

History Since Independence

In 1898, the former Castilian territory of Florida broke away as an empire consisting of three regions: West Florida, East Florida (these were unable to extricate themselves from the new Floridian Empire that replaced Spanish rule), and South Florida plus a few islands with grand plans to conquer many more. The Constitution of 1955 consolidated the three regions into a single state divided into 15 distritos. While developing the concept of destino castellano, which held that Florida-Caribbea had a kind of regional and national mandate to unite the whole Caribbean basin into one country, the plans for a general annexation were put into effect. Thus, the "Gran Armada Libertadora" began wars of conquest against their neighbours, and in short order had conquered the majority of the region: Turks and Caicos (1940); Santo Domingo, Lesser Antilles (1943-5), Trinidad and Tobago (1951), Caymans (1952), Cruzans (1946), Cuba (1953), Bahamas (1974), Jamaica (1979), Batavian Antilles, Okefenokee (2000), Mosquito Cays (2002, returned to England and then to the Mosquito Coast in 2003).

Not all of Florida's actions in the region have been violent. Santo Domingo joined Florida willingly in 1904; conflicting documents allude to payolas between the President of the Floridas and the colonial governors of Martinique and Guadeloupe in 1915, resulting in the peaceful annexation of those territories. Florida took advantage of Cuba's 1953 Revolution, by supporting certain key events and members of the Cuban revolutionary movement, in order to take the Crown Jewel of the Caribbean. Shortly after that, in 1955, the "Constitución de la Nación" was reformed to reflect the addition of Cuba and Hispañola as member states coequal with Florida, a new state formed from the merger of East Florida, West Florida, and South Florida. In 2002-2003, Florida-Caribbea was at war again with Hayti, in an attempt to reconquer and subdue the Creole-French speaking nation. It had long been Florida's position that Hayti is a renegade territory in a state of rebellion against the Federal Government.

The last president was Jaime Bush (1990-2004), brother and frequent rival of the former Tejan dictator Jorge Walker Bush. Due to Florida's less than ideal treatment of some of its smaller territories, talk began in '03 of a new war between a League of Nations sanctioned Grand Coalition ( NAL, the FK, the SR, France, Castille-Leon and Dalmatia) and Florida-Caribbea.

North Florida had not forgotten its English past, and many of the English descendants resented the Hispanic governors of Miami. Particularly former West Florida remained quite close with their American neighbor, Cherokee Nation. Relations between FC and the NAL soured in the 70's, as FC "liberated" the Bahamas and Jamaica, and crossed the Perdido River, taking back the land sold in 1819. A newly inflamed series of border skirmishes led to the building of a veritable line of fortresses along the border.

By June 2003, Florida had definitively supressed the "Haytian Rebellion"; and proffered its Caribbean Plan to the NAL, FK and SR, most likely in an attempt to prevent a war with those powers. The Plan called for international recognition of FC's aggrandised territory; and offered condominium status between several of its provinces and their former colonial governments as a conciliatory move designed to remove the principal reason the NAL and the SR desired to go to war in the first place.

After the Caribbean Plan went into effect, the Cruzans became more outspoken in deciding their own affairs and to express more openly what they thought of the Hispanic population. When the homesteading system was reintroduced, the Hispanic population really began to feel persecuted by the Cruzan population. This situation, marred by the SR's use of piracy, destabilised the region and led to civil war, a coup and the eventual involvement of the Commonwealth, the Scandinavian Realm and France in a general war. The end result was an atomic wasteland where once stood the lovely town of Charlotte Amalie, and the dismantling of Florida-Caribbea by those organisations that lost member territories. In the post-war period, many documents have been archived by the RTC's occupation forces. Several of these record various plots and schemes by members of the Cortes dissatisfied with Presidente Bush's reforms and the Caribbean Plan itself. No fewer than nine known attempts on the Presidente's life were made; with known plans for a further fourteen, many of which were drawn up by scheming Cortes members or disaffected justices of the High Court.

Before the war, rumors of a Constitutional Convention slated for 2004 or 2005 abounded, with the end of cementing the Plan and its effects into national Law. The antagonism between the NAL and FC boiled over into the 2004 Florida War, and northern Florida, consisting of the former West Florida and East Florida, plus the northern part of former South Florida, were occupied by the NAL, while eastern South Florida was occupied by the Republic of the Two Crowns, and the west by Ireland. Provisional governments were quickly set up in the NAL zone for the re-established West and East Florida (which now included all of NAL-occupied Florida east of the Appalachicola, including that area that was formerly South Florida). The northern Floridas, West Florida & East Florida were recently readmitted to the NAL. The European Zone is still in question, and progress has been dramatically delayed due to the Furocanos of 2004 and 2005. The war officially lasted from March 13, 2004, until March 25 of the same year. The rapidity of the action is credited to the debilitating coup coupled with the massive combined invasion forces. During this period, on March 18, Bush was overthrown by General Silva-Gonzales, who was later convicted for war crimes (on June 16) by a SR court to exile in Antarctica.

The General, one day after the coup, ordered the use of an atomic bomb in Charlotte Amalie, capital of the Cruzans. A few days later came the attempted atomic bombing of Nouvelle Orleans in Louisianne, which resulted in an atomic blast on the Gulf Coast, causing radioactive rain to fall on St. Onge, the Gulf Coast NAL provinces and some of Florida. Currently, Cuba and Porto Rico have been restored as nations, while the rest of the Caribbean has been returned to their pre-"Liberation" status. Florida itself is currently occupied by the Irish in the south east, and the Republic of the Two Crowns in the southwest. The north has become two NAL provinces, East Florida and West Florida. The status of Southern Florida is at present unclear.

In light of the direction the war actually took, many have wondered why the SR didn't use the atomic bomb in Florida-Caribbea first. Of course, the obvious answer was that F-C was not really worth the effort. Only one minor colony had been lost, and like the NAL and FK, the SR did not seek an immediate redress of that loss. Another answer is that the SR may well have suspected that the Floridian armed forces had a bomb of their own, and were afraid of retaliation against any bombing of mainland Florida. Of course, their worst fears became reality after the coup when Gen. Silva-Gonzales pre-emptively used an atomic bomb in Charlotte Amalie.

Incompetence on the part of the RTC as occupiers and hesitance on the part of the Irish to further the indpendence of their own territories ultimately led to an uprising in the northern parts of Coroner held territories. Four regions declared indpendence late in 2008 as the Commonwealth of Four Palms; a further rebellion in the Rzebamarz province was brutally quelled in the aftermath. As of March 2009, Four Palms has gained the recognition of many countries as an independent country, has ratified a constitution and plans on holding elections in May 2009.

Why Florida Caribbea Failed

Some notes on the whys and wherefores...

There seems to be a frequent problem in history: a person achieves a high office with a reasonable expectation from himself and his constituency that he will be able to handle the problems of the day, only to be blindsided by something even worse and even more intractible that nobody could have predicted. This seems to be exactly what happened towards the end of Florida-Caribbea's history.

Presidente Bush, like President Young in Louisianna, was the right man with the right ideas and in the right place -- rational reformer seeking to correct the course of a nation with potential but that at present was foundering under its own corruption.

It can reasonably be stated that he could never have forseen the trouble his reforms in the Crusado Islands would bring. Poor communications and an unwillingness to work towards sensible progress, largely on the part of the Scandinavian Crusados and their Scandinavian agents, stymied the process from the start. War mongers in the NAL and Europe only served to add fuel to the fire and the whole place exploded before the Plan could properly coalesce.

We now know, for example, from the state archives seized by Gen. Bombarlya's forces and recovered by the Cuatro Palmans, that a previously unpublicised part of the Caribbean Plan involved a return of large portions of East and West Florida to the NAL. We already know that Presidente Bush went so far as to offer condomium status to the SR for the Cruzados.

So, we end up with Sr Bush being blindsided by events he couldn't have forseen and probably could not have effectively dealt with if he'd been given the chance. There was also that matter of the coup d'etat that more or less ended any chance he had of salvaging F-C from the brink of its now inevitable destruction.

Results: F-C utterly destroyed and even now barely recovering. Even relatively untouched Cuba is suffering from a devastated economy. The SR is saddled with something of a pariah status in many parts of the region. The coup scandal in the NAL was devastating there as well.

Administration

Government

Florida-Caribbea was originally constituted as an empire, then a nominal republic ostensibly within the Central American Community, settling at last upon a presidential dictatorship which it has remained for much of its history.

Rulers of Florida since Spanish Times

  • 1898-1900 Agustin I de Borbon
  • 1900-1901 Cabrera-Lopez
  • 1901-1934 Agustin Orlandez
  • 1934-1970 Villanueva
  • 1970-1983 Francisco López
  • 1983-1988 Villa-Lobos
  • 1988-1990 Jose-Maria Andersen-Matamoros
  • 1990-2004 Jaime Bush

Between 1901 and 1970, the official title of the Presidente was: Presidnte de la Republica Nacionalista y Revolucionista de las Floridas, el Conde de Orlando, el Muy Honorado Senyor (name).

After 1970, the official title of the Presidente was: El Grandissimo y Poderissimo Presidnte de la Republica Presidencial Nacionalista y Revolucionista de Tierra Florida y las Antillas, el Conde de Orlando, el Muy Honorado Senyor (name); Presidente y Caudillo de la Republica y Gran Ministro de Justicia y Protector de la Ley; Capitan Generalissimo de las Fuerzas Armadas; Fuente y Padre de la Nacion.

Form of Government

Under the Presidency, Florida-Caribbean government was divided into an executive-legislature and an executive-judiciary. The Cortes was composed largely of wealthy hidalgos and condes of ancient Castilian aristocracy plus a number of wealthy Native caciques and important religious and economic leaders. Some positions were elected, others hereditary, still others appointed through an increasingly corrupt "civil service" system. The president was the leader of the Cortes, and so there was no formal division between the legislature and the executive. On the judicial side, the court system was composed of several levels of local and national courts plus several heritage legal systems (notably Jamaica and Bahamas; Cuba and the Cruzan Islands) that maintained some pre-Union traditions. Again, there was no formal separation between the executive and judiciary: the president served as the final arbiter of all legal issues and had the power to overturn High Court decisions.

Administrative Divisions

Florida.jpg

Florida-Carribea was divided into 3 Estados and (nominally) 6 Provincias, each further subdivided into Distritos

  • Estado de la Florida
    • El Transperdido
    • Pensacola
    • Bahía de San Andrés
    • Apalachicola
    • Aucilla
    • Suani
    • Avilés
    • San Agustín
    • Alachua
    • Bahía de Tampa
    • Orlando
    • Ais
    • Bahía de Carlota
    • Ocachobi
    • Miami i los Cayos
  • Estado de Cuba
    • Pinar del Río
    • La Habana
    • Matanzas
    • Las Villas
    • Camagüey
    • Oriente
    • Turcas i Caicos
    • Caimán
  • Estado de Hispañola
  • Provincia de Hispañola Occidental (Hayti)*
  • Provincia de Pôrto Rico
  • Provincia de las Bahamas
  • Provincia de Jamaica
  • Provincia de las Antillas Menores
    • Antigua i Barbuda
    • San Cristóbal i Nieves
    • Montserrat
    • Guadalupe
    • Dominica
    • Martinica
    • Santa Lucía
    • Grenada
    • Barbados
    • Tobago
    • Trinidad
    • Nueva Holanda (Batavian Antilles)
  • Provincia de las Islas Cruzadas

*Note: The nominal Provincia de Hispañola Occidental was officially reckoned by FC to be a rebel province. It governed itself as a de facto sovereign state

Geography

Borders

North: North American League
West: Louisianne, Gulf of Mexico, Carribean Sea
South: Carribean Sea
East: Atlantic Ocean

Economy

The currency of the Empire was identical to that used in the colonial period. After the First Republic was declared, a currency of one peso equalling sixteen soles was instituted. This currency remained in effect until 2004. It is a matter of interesting legacy that the old Florida-Caribbean 1 sol coins are still legal tender in the NAL provinces of West and East Florida at a value of 1/3d.

Many people around the world considered Florida-Caribbea to be a "two bit banana dictatorship". For the most part, their assessment is quite defensible. The form of government is very centralising and almost designed to promote graft, corruption, payola and embezzlement. The country seems to have managed its affairs mostly through the tourist trade (resorts, theme parks, cruise lines, etc), tropical/semi-tropical agriculture serving the NAL and Louisianne with citrus and other fruits year round, a lively film industry and serving as a major port center for shipments arriving from South America and southern Africa.

Culture

Of note is Jante's Law.

Languages

The official language of Florida-Caribbea was Castillian. Other languages spoken include Seminole, French, English, Scandinavian, various Creoles.

Religion

The official religion under the empire was the Isidorian Catholic Church. Non-Christian religions and non-Catholic Christian churches were obliged to pay a special religions tax. Other Catholic churches were exempt. This same church continued to be the primary church within the later republics, and among the Iberian populations, approximately 99% of the population were listed as Isidorian Catholics.

See also

Source Materials


This article is source material


     It is comprised of accepted IB material, but has not been written up in article form for the Ill Bethisad     
wiki. Anyone feel free to edit it. QSS and QAA apply inasmuch as this is already accepted material.



The following as of the eve of the great Caribbean War...

La Presidencia de la Tierra Florida y las Antiles (originally La República Nacionalista y Revolucionista de las Floridas), or simply Florida-Caribbea as it is commonly known, is composed of mainland Florida and all of the Caribbean islands. Two years and two revolutions after its constitution in the aftermath of the 1898 War, Florida's "Gran Armada Libertadora" began wars of conquest against its neighbours, and in short order had conquered the majority of the region: Turks and Caicos (1900); Santo Domingo, Lesser Antilles (1903-5), Trinidad and Tobago (1911), Caymans (1912), Cruzans? (1946), Cuba (1953), Bahamas (1974), Jamaica (1979), Batavian Antilles, Okefenokee (2000), Mosquito Cays (2002, returned to England and the Mosquito Coast in 2003).

Not all of Flordia's actions in the region have been violent. Santo Domingo joined Florida willingly in 1904; conflicting documents allude to payolas between the President of Florida and the colonial governors of Martinique and Guadaloupe in 1915, resulting in the peaceful annexation of those territories. Florida took advantage of Cuba's 1953 Revolution, by supporting certain key events and members of the Cuban revolutionary movement, in order to take the Crown Jewel of the Caribbean. As of 2002, Florida-Caribbea was at war again with Hayti, in an attempt to reconquer and subdue the Creole-French speaking nation. It has long been Florida's position that Hayti is a renegade territory in a state of rebellion against the Federal Government.

The current president is Jaime Bush (1990), brother and frequent rival of the former Tejan dictator Jorge Walker Bush. Due to Florida's less than ideal treatment of some of its smaller territories, there are rumblings of new War between a League of Nations sanctioned Grand Coalition (NAL-SLC, the FK?, the SR, France, Castille-Leon and Dalmatia) and Florida-Caribbea. As of June 2003, Florida definitively supressed the "Haytian Rebellion"; and proffered its "Caribbean Plan" to the NAL, FK and SR, most likely in an attempt to prevent a war with those powers. The Plan calls for international recognition of Florida's aggrandised territory; and offers condominium status between several of its provinces and their former colonial governments as a conciliatory move designed to remove the principal reason the NAL and the SR desired to go to war in the first place. Tejas's position is unknown, though it is an important supplier of helium to the NAL-SLC and its dirigible fleet is one to be reckoned with in any Caribbean action. Cuba and Hispañola (Santo Domingo) will also have to be reckoned with, as they are staunch and committed members of the Presidency, not to mention that Hispañola has a particular interest in reuniting the island under a single government. The "Constitución de la Nación" was reformed in 1955 to reflect the addition of Cuba and Hispañola as member states coequal with Florida. Rumors of a Constitutional Convention slated for 2004 or 2005 abound, with the end of cementing the Plan and its effects into national Law.

Not every aspect of Floridian life is centered around war and conquest. For a long time, Florida has been a major producer and exporter of citrus products. It is also a major resort destination, for North Americans as well as Europeans and Iberian Americans. The city of Orlando was declared by presidential fiat a "Resort Capital" of Florida. Noting the popularity of America's roadside wonders, the Warner Brothers (American producers of cartoons and second rate movies) expressed interest in creating a roadside wonder/theme park in the Sunbelt. Florida was already a hot spot for American tourists, so president Villanueva in 1965 ordered the clearance of land around Orlando in order to build the world's grandest amusement park. It consists of a number of rides, concessions, music halls and seasonal entertainments. Children love to meet Bugs and all his pals at the gate.


Some comments and responses on Florida:

Question: Is Florida a "two bit banana republic dictatorship"? I was under the impression that it's pretty well-off.

Response: It was indeed well off, but that was spoilt by years of mismanagement and corruption the effects of which are still felt to the present day.

Even now, no one takes Florida seriously. I know the world (and the SR in particular) have no great love or respect for Bush, though he is vèry much the reformer. [The Bush character *there* would have made a good 19th century US president *here*.] He is hampered by a terribly complex and byzantine burocracy and a sort of monied aristocracy that make up the Cortes and of course a terribly corrupt Justice System.

Well, he probably won't last too long at it. There are not a few in the Cortes (quite a few with money connexions in the Cruzans) that were not in favour of the Plan, are not in favour of his democratic reforms and blame him for the loss of Tejas. Jaime may have been a bumbling penny-ha-penny dictator, but he WAS an extra ace in Florida's pocket.

They have a couple other aces up various sleeves, mind.

Comment: I think things would be very different if the SR did use the bomb on Florida, and we have established too much already. So we need to explain why the SR didn't use it.

Response: _At the time_, I simply doubt Florida was worth the effort. Keep in mind that the FK and the NAL neglected to pursue Florida's advances in the Caribbean as well. Personally, I think their plan was simply to wait for a particularly corrupt dictator to come along and buy their territories out of hock. Clearly that strategy didn't work too well. Even if they had the bomb, the NAL would never use the thing; and I doubt any FK nation would nuke Florida over lost colonies.

Let's face it: Florida is NO Imperial Japan! Between thee and me, if the SR decided to simply trounce Florida, I bet they could take over everything but Florida and Cuba within a year. Of course, the FK and NAL will not want to be left out of liberating their own territories; such a war could probably be done within three months.


Some comments on the Cruzan situation, according to Scandinavian expert Kristian Jensen: Bush is also hampered by the extreme cultural differences between the Latin-based culture of Hispanic Floridia-Carribeans and the Scandinavian-based culture of the Cruzans. If there is one negative cultural trait that the Virgin Islanders (both *here* and *there*) have inherited from Scandinavia, then its envy. The reason behing the intense envy towards Hispanics prevalent in the Cruzan Islands can be found in the Jante's Law mentality, which was described by the Dano-Norwegian author, Aksel Sandemose, of consisting of the following ten commandments:

1 Thou shalt not presume that thou art anyone important.
2 Thou shalt not presume that thou art as good as us.
3 Thou shalt not presume that thou art any wiser than us.
4 Thou shalt never indulge in the conceit of imagining that thou art better than us.
5 Thou shalt not presume that thou art more knowledgeable than us.
6 Thou shalt not presume that thou art more than us in any way.
7 Thou shalt not presume that that thou art going to amount to anything.
8 Thou art not entitled to laugh at us.
9 Thou shalt never imagine that anyone cares about thee.
10 Thou shalt not suppose that thou can teach us anything.

These ten laws stand as a fairly accurate depiction of moral code in Scandinavia as well as the Cruzan Islands today. It can be said that many Cruzados live by these laws, consciously or not, and embrace them deeply. Envy, despite being a Christian sin, is a principle part of Jante's Law. Breaking this social code means that your neighbors will despise you for your individuality, uniqueness, or an excess show of wealth. In fact, one could venture to say that in Cruzan society, breaking Jante's Law is in and of itself much worse than committing the sin of envy.

Despite the fact that the Scandinavian Realm is a monarchy where a couple of states even have a ruling nobility, Jante's Law ensures that all states are largely egalitarian. The royals and the nobility do not flaunt their wealth and status as much as in other monarchies, and the monarch has been reduced today to a symbolic head of state with virtually no powers.

What purpose does Jante's Law serve in Cruzan society today? Sandemose wrote, "By means of Jante's Law, people stamp out each other's chances in life." This cruel statement taken by itself paints a harsh and unforgiving picture of Cruzado society. Yet, the laws serve a purpose deeply rooted in historical background. In early provincial Scandinavia and its former colonies, strong community solidarity was necessary to tie people together and to survive as a collective. The survival of the community as an entire entity was more important than any individual member, and thus the moral code behind Jante's Law was formed. Very provincial.

When emancipation was granted to the Cruzan Islands in 1849, Jante's Law became more prevalent in the Cruzado society, and the disparity between incomes gradually grew lesser. The Cruzan Islands was well on its way to becoming an egalitarian state after it received its independence in 1937. The Cruzan Islands were in the process of dismantling the old plantation system and introducing the homesteading system. However, this development was suddenly interrupted ten years later when Florida invaded the islands and reintroduced the plantation system where rich Floridian hacienda owners took over the remaining plantations and bought out the homesteaders.

It should come as no surprise that Florida's violent way of annexing the islands has left a deep-seated grudge with most Cruzans: "Florida shall not presume that it is anything important to us, as good as us, wiser than us, etc.". Alonso Rivera's laissez-faire style of governing the islands worked well for Florida in so far as it allowed the Cruzans to govern themselves with no interference from Florida. But the grudge against the Floridians was always there, particularly against the rich Hispanic plantation owners.

After the Floridian Plan went into effect, the Cruzans became more confident to decide over their own affairs and to express more openly what they think of the Hispanic population. When the homesteading system was reintroduced, the Hispanic population really began to feel pursecuted by the Cruzan population.


2004 has been a devastating year for Florida-Caribbea. After the referrendum on the Caribbean Plan, Florida fully expected that life could return to normal and peace could at last settle over the country. However, that peace was shattered when one of the provinces, the Cruzan Islands, decided to vote independence for itself. This illegal action on the part of the Cruzans government and the stubborn refusal of the Cruzan leadership to step down forced Florida to take military action. Shortly thereafter, a long planned but ill conceived coup d'etat toppled Mr Bush from the presidency and flung Florida into an unwinnable war that has utterly destroyed the country.

Scandinavian historian Kristian Jensen wrote a short article on the matter:

The Florida War took place in March, 2004. The immediate cause was the declaration of independence by the [Cruzan Islands]?, but it is really much more complicated.

The islands had long been an unhappy conquest of Florida-Caribbea, and a source of friction between FC and the Scandinavian Realm. On the 30th of July, 2003, as part of Jaime Bush's Caribbean Plan, an FC-SR condominium status for the Cruzans was approved in a referendum.

However, a constitutional crisis then arose shortly afterwards. In the Cruzan Constitution, any changes of sovereignty must be approved in a referendum with a 75% yes vote and with more than 50% voter-turnout. While the voter turn-out was indeed way above 50%, the approval of the Caribbean Plan was just barely 53%. The question was whether the referendum about a change in sovereignty. The Cruzan High Court resolved this when they ruled on the 12th of June, 2003, that the referendum was not about sovereignty issues. But rumours of corrupt High Court judges and payola stifled the credibility of this ruling for months to come.

In September 2003, the Cruzan Parliament passed a law, the Homesteading Plan, which allowed the Cruzan government the right of first purchase whenever an estate was for sale. Estates purchased by the Cruzan government were then to be divided into smaller portions, which were then to be sold as homesteads, where native Cruzado citizens have the right of first purchase, other Scandinavians second, and other Antilleanos third.

In the following months, Cruzans started to discriminate against Hispanic residing in the islands in what seemed to be a deliberate attempt to force them to sell their properties. Hispanic owned shops were boycotted, and violence towards Hispanics increased as well. Hispanic residents began to pack up and leave.

On the 5th of February, 2004, Cruzan Television broadcasted a documentary, which claimed that two of the three Cruzan High Court judges were paid by Floridian Vice President Simon Eugenio Higgins-Calvo to rule in favor of the Floridian plan. The Cruzans were outraged. But so was Miami. Alleging that the Cruzan Islanders were ethnically the islands against the Hispanic residents, Bush sent in a contingent of the Guardia Nacional. The Cruzan Islanders objected to the troops, objecting to the claims of ethnic cleansing, insisting that the emigration of Hispanics was entirely voluntary.

On February 20, the Cruzan Islanders called for a new referendum on full sovreignty to be held on the 29th. FC sent in more troops to "restore order". A formal declaration of independance was made on March 12. Florida could not accept this declaration. They arrested several Cruzan personalities and executed them, including Alonso Rivera, former Floridian governor of the Cruzans and Nobel Peace Price candidate. Fighting broke out between Floridian and Cruzan troops.

On the 13th, in response to Floridian aggression against the Cruzan Islanders, the SR declared war on FC. The NAL soon joined the SR's coallition. On March 18, Jaime Bush was overthrown as President by General Silva-Gonzalez. The next day, an atomic bomb was exploded in Charlotte Amalie, the capital of the Cruzan Islands. On the 23rd, the NAL invaded northern Florida, while the SR and her allies invaded in the South. The SR forces went completely berserk, after hearing that their West Indian capital had been completely destroyed by an atomic bomb, and fought with frenzied rage. The entirety of the Floridian penninsula was secured by the 24th. In a last-ditch effort by FC diehards against the coalition, a second atomic bomb was exploded aboard a small boat in the Gulf of Mexico causing radioactive contamination of the entire lower Mississippi Basin.

Many SR troops could not control their rage, and let out on Florida's cultural treasures, destroying several monuments, burning museums, desacrating graves, and confiscating much of Banco de Florida's gold and silver reserves. The SR promptly received international condemnation for their excessively harsh treatment of Florida, but were allowed to keep the gold and silver reserves to pay for the destruction of Charlotte Amalie.

After the war was over, the SR handed their occupation zone to the Republic of the Two Crowns. Ireland also has a small share of Florida. Cuba and Porto Rico have been restored as independent nations, while the rest of the Caribbean has been returned to its original, pre-conquest, status. The American occupation zone of Florida appears to be Americanizing now, and may soon become NAL provinces.[KJ]

The only portion of the old regime left unconquered is the eastern half of the island of Hispannola. The Louisianans have made some overtures towards invading that part of the island, but as of mid 2004, the island's destiny is an unknown. As 2004 has progressed, it seems that Haytian Emperor Dieudonné III shall end up ruling a unified Hispannola island.


A correspondence concerning Florida from June 2004:

--- Nik Taylor wrote:

> Padraic Brown wrote:
> > I think that's just a matter of tradition, the
> > Council Fire business. A sort of first step, and
> > certainly a good photo op! The Convention is
> > indeed the one that will decide yea or nay.
> 
> Makes sense.  What will the Floridas need to be
> considered?  

_UNOFFICIALLY_ the NAL very much wants Florida,
if for no other reason than to keep it out of
trouble. Various and sundry Plans, Schemes,
Discussions and white papers have been floating
around Philly regarding the Floridian Question.
The answers have been somewhat veiled and opaque,
but largely point towards Florida in some way
becoming an American territory. Some prefer a
kind of colony that can be directly administered
from Philly; others prefer full provincehood,
because that would avoid uprisings and the other
provinces could nudge the Flordians back onto the
right track should anything go amiss. Plus,
provincehood would create a tighter and closer
bond than independence or colonyhood would do.

_OFFICIALLY_ the sooner Florida can adopt and
adapt to some civilised form of government, i.e.,
something along the lines of the NAL itself!, the
better. The civilian administration has been
working on instituting some democratic reforms in
elections processes and eliminating the curiously
Floridian art known as Graft and Kickback from
the day-to-day running of goverment offices.
Ideally, we'd like government appointees,
employees and elected officials to do their jobs
because of a sense of duty to King and Country,
not because they want to stuff their pockets with
five quid notes.

Naturally, "King" with respect to Florida would
be no more than a figure of speech. Unlike the
British and Scandinavian provinces, being a
"subject of the monarch" would be rather
irrelevant, since they don't have one.

> I would imagine some kind of provincial 
> constitution (charter?).  

Yes. Some form of Charter, and the means to put
it into effect, will be required.

> Will the question of money come before or after
> acceptance?  

That's not really a question. If they are
accepted, the Castillian words that translate
pound, shilling and penny* will be used. Libra or
escudo are likely candidates for pound. Peso is
most likely out, because that reminds one too
much of the previous regime. Perhaps soldo or
peseta or escudo could be adopted for "shilling"
and perhaps denario or rubio or maravedi could be
adopted for "penny".

The sol coins have already been declared valid at
3 to the penny; so a new denomination could come
into being in Florida in place of the half penny.
Or they could skip pennies altogether and use
soles: you'd have coins of one sol (1/3d) 3 soles
(1d) and 9 soles (3d). Therefore, a 1-20-720
prgression. In any event, the two systems mesh by
using the grano (or 1/3f coin) which is a twelfth
of a penny and both the sol and farthing are even
multiples.

Apart from that, the Promise needs to be
translated into Castillian. Based on models from
*here* (Mexico and Argentina): "Prometo pagar la
cantidad de £X al portador".

Naturally, the banking system would have to be
integrated into that of the NAL. Can't have an
individual province sinking its economy by
printing itself into inflationary oblivion!

> Any other requirements?

They'll have to learn probably English at least
as a second language and might want to become
familiar with Brithenig and Tsalagey... You know,
it's Summer and the beaches will beckon!

Of course, that's reciprocal - admission of the
Floridas will mean a new language in the
Convention Hall!

It should be noted that West Florida and East Florida are to be readmitted to the NAL (after some two centuries under Castilian and Floridian rule) in January or February of 2005.

Following is a(n anymore not so) recent thread on the evolution of modern Floridian history.

Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:06:07 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go? 

--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > NEWS IN BRIEF, Georgetown, Maryland: May 12, 2003.
> >
> > TWO WARS DOWN, ONE TO GO? That's what everyone in Philadelphia is asking
> > today, now that two of the world's three hotspots have cooled down
> > somewhat. As of last week, the war in Hunan is over, leaving Canton, their
> > Commonwealth allies and other foreign friends victorious.

> I'm still behind by about 500 posts, so forgive me if what I'm about to write
> is not up to date. 

Not entirely! I've been waiting for your return, so I can find out what those
Scandinavian warmongers are going to do next!! ;)

> But after reading the above news brief, I suspect that a League of Nations
> will assemble a meeting very soon (if it has not already), to discuss what to
> do with Florida's refusal to recognize Haytian, Cruzan, and other Westindian
> sovereignty.

Naturally, the LoN will meddle - but they're notoriously slow to consider
acting; and even slower to act. And when they do, it'll most likely be a slap
on the wrist.

The trouble will naturally come in the form of the "Grand Coalition" - and what
the individual Governments of its members decide to do! Anyway, it is to these
Governments (less Spain and France) that the Treaty and Plan are addressed. 

Spain's support for war is dwindling, as the F-C is a major trading partner;
France is considered a meddling irrelevancy to the matter at hand.

RE: the Caribbean Plan.

> A group of FK, SR, and NAL officials have been sent by the League of Nations
> to Florida for one final parley with the Floridian government. Their terms,
> as always:

They will be made welcome, as always, but should realise that they are not in a
position to dictate terms. Rather, the Plan and the Treaty are offered _to_ the
SR, NAL & the FK.

> Florida-Caribbea must accept that they don't have any claims to and must
> recognize the independence of; Hayti, Jamaica, the Virgin Islands, the
> Bahamas, and the Lesser Antilles.

Naturally, this is not possible. European powers have no business dictating to
Florida its own ideas concerning internal Floridian policies. Florida is well within its rights to despatch rebellious regions as it sees fit.

> In return, the FK, SR, and NAL governments will recognize Floridian
> sovereignty over Florida, Cuba, Eastern Hispaniola (Dominica), and San Juan
> Island (Puerto Rico).

We would be laughed at (by you) if we demanded that the SR restrict itself to
no more than its Oldenburg lands.

> Refusal on the part of Florida-Caribbea to accept the above terms will compel
the League of Nations to sanction the use of force against Florida-Caribbea.

The LoN should concentrate on the Plan, rather than issue demands and dictate unreasonable terms. Naturally, Florida is comprehensive in its desire to rebuild war-torn regions (Hayti and the Cruzans are of especial interest here), enhance regions neglected by former colonial powers and improve the lot of all Antilleanos; it is also quite liberal in its plan to foster regional autonomy and in its offer of condominium status to selected annexed regions. It explicitly lays out an expanded array of civil rights and governmental limitations that will come to be in the new Florida. It also lays out the groundwork for a Constitutional Convention within the next year that will enshrine these rights, currently enjoyed by non-colonial Floridians, for all.

For example, current (colonial era) restrictions on the press, religious rights, suffrage and migration will be lifted. As of now, most colonies have decent educational systems (but are not accessible to all) and poor healthcare. Those too will change. Economic issues are to be dealt with, on a national and regional basis, and the range of inflated colonial currencies are to be abolished in favour of the peso.

Padraic.


Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:44:31 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go? 

----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 29. juni 2003 00:06
Emne: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go?


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
> -----<snip>-----
> The LoN should concentrate on the Plan, rather than issue demands and dictate
> unreasonable terms.

I wrote all this before I read about the plan. I was still catching up, y'know ;)

Anyways, the plan looks fairly reasonable. But there are a couple of
adjustments and clarifications that'll have to be made before it is fully
acceptable to both the SR and the Cruzan gov't-in-exile.

> Naturally, Florida is comprehensive in its desire to rebuild war-torn regions
> (Hayti and the Cruzans are of especial interest here),

Ah yes... all those colorful neo-classical dano-norwegian buildings in
Charlotte Amalie, Frederiksted, and Christiansted. They'll have to be
renovated. Especially for the tourism industry. Fresh water has also always
been a problem - the Cruzan Islands, as small as they are, have no aquifers to
speak of. So there must be made some arrangement to import fresh water from
Florida-Caribbea. The sugar-pipelines would also have to be rebuilt to get the
agriculture economy going.

> enhance regions neglected by former colonial powers and improve the lot of
> all Antilleanos;

I can't speak for other former colonial powers, but the SR constitution
explicitly states that all citizens (whether in Scandinavia proper or in the
associated states) are guaranteed exactly the same rights and standard of
living.

> it is also quite liberal in its plan to foster regional autonomy and in its
> offer of condominium status to selected annexed regions.

Autonomy is important. Question is, what new status would the Cruzan Islands
have? If the Cruzan Islands are to become a condominium, how much autonomy will they have from the Floridian gov't? Would the Cruzan gov't still be in free association with the SR gov't, or would it have to be reclassified as an
affiliate to the SR gov't (like New Sweden and New Iceland)?

> It explicitly lays out an expanded array of civil rights and governmental
> limitations that will come to be in the new Florida. It also lays out the
> groundwork for a Constitutional Convention within the next year that will
> enshrine these rights, currently enjoyed by non-colonial Floridians, for all.

Sounds alright.

> For example, current (colonial era) restrictions on the press, religious
> rights, sufferage and migration will be lifted.

There are no current colonial era restrictions in the Cruzan Constitution.

> As of now, most colonies have decent educational systems (but are not
> accessible to all) and poor healthcare.

That's not a fair assessment. It's difficult to provide decent educational and
healthcare systems when the land is under dispute.

> Those too will change. Economic issues are to be dealt with, on a national
> and regional basis, and the range of inflated colonial currencies are to be
> abolished in favour of the peso.

If that's so, that would mean that that the Cruzan islands would be an affiliated SR state rather a freely associated one.

***

The Cruzan Constitution must be respected. As dictated by the Cruzan Constitution, any changes to the sovereignty of the Cruzan Islands must be put
to a referendum, where only Cruzan citizens can vote. There are two sovereignty
issues in the Floridian plan that needs to be put to a referendum:

1) The change of the Cruzan Island's sovereignty status from an SR state to a
condominium state between the SR and Florida.

2) The change in the currency.

Obviously, it'd be most practical to put (1) to the vote first. If the result is a "yes" to the change in sovereignty, then (2) can be put to the vote.

If the vote to (1) is a "no", then the plan must be revised and then put
through another referendum.

***

The probationary period of the condominium status must be discussed in more
detail. How long is the period? What are the conditions of the probation?

***

The SR's share of the condominium only involves the territory within Cruzan
sovereignty. Therefore, the SR and the Cruzan gov'ts will not accept getting
involved in any conflict that Florida may be drawn into. This includes fighting
privateers and covert operatives outside the territorial waters and airspace of
the Cruzan Islands, whether they are our citizens or foreign citizens.

On a related note: The SR privateering fleet has at the moment been instructed
to pause on their activities. But a few private military companies are
anticipating the end of their services. Some that have surrendered their privateering licenses intend to go on without legal backing from the SR.

***

The map provided by the plan is incorrect. The Cruzan Islands also includes the
Crab (Vieques) and Culebra Islands. If it indeed was the intention of the plan
that Crab and Culebra islands be taken from Cruzan sovereignty, then this must
also be put to a referendum.

-kristian-
 

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:05:39 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go? 

--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > The LoN should concentrate on the Plan, rather  than issue demands and
> > dictate unreasonable terms.
> 
> I wrote all this before I read about the plan. I was still catching up,
> y'know ;)

Well, naturally, the Scandinavians should actually _read_ the Plan before they spout off! ;)

> Anyways, the plan looks fairly reasonable. But there are a couple of
> adjustments and clarifiactions that'll have to be made before it is fully
> acceptable to both the SR and the Cruzan gov't-in-exile.

Just to make a clarification: for the most part, the Plan is not a negotiable
offer. Certainly, there are points where some leeway will be granted (and know
this: the Cruzans are being given more leeway than any other territory!); but 
the Cruzados must be more accepting of reality as well.

> > Naturally, Florida is comprehensive in its desire to rebuild war-torn
> > regions (Hayti and the Cruzans are of especial interest here),
> 
> Ah yes... all those colorful neo-classical dano-norwegian buildings in
> Charlotte Amalie, Frederiksted, and Christiansted. They'll have to be
> renovated. Especially for the tourism industry.

Naturally. Tourism is the big draw in most of the territories!

Also, what do those cities correspond to *here*? I might as well change those
on the map.

> Fresh water has also always been a problem 

[Actually, I didn't know that!]

> - the Cruzan Islands, as small as they are, have no aquifers to speak of. So
> there must be made some arrangement to import fresh water from Florida-
> Caribbea. The sugar-pipelines would also have to be rebuilt to get the
> agriculture economy going.

Such infrastructure would be emplaced whether or not the SR accepts the Treaty.

> > enhance regions neglected by former colonial powers and improve the lot of
> > all Antilleanos;
> 
> I can't speak for other former colonial powers, but the SR constitution
> explicitly states that all citizens (whether in Scandinavia proper or in the
> associated states) are guaranteed exactly the same rights and standard of
> living.

Naturally, the language of the Treaty and the Plan are as inclusive as possible. It just won't do to make a statement and then require a paragraph explaining which colonies it did or didn't apply to. The Cruzans are considered to be one of the more enlightened territories.

> > it is also quite liberal in its plan to foster regional autonomy and in its
> > offer of condominium status to selected annexed regions.
> 
> Autonomy is important. Question is, what new status would the Cruzan Islands
> have? If the Cruzan Islands are to become a condominium, how much autonomy
> will they have from the Floridian gov't? 

Naturally, local governance will have to come from the Cruzados themselves;
just like any other province. Matters of defense, international diplomacy and
the like will come from the appropriate capital (either Miami or La Habana);
just like any other province.

> Would the Cruzan gov't still be in free association with the SR gov't, or
> would it have to be reclassified as an affiliate to the SR gov't (like New
> Sweden and New Iceland)?

More the latter. Florida isn't _quite_ as loose-reined as the NAL in this
matter. It would be a little more like a US state *here*: this is not a
revocable union, and external matters of defense and diplomacy are to be
handled from Miami without consultation with the SR.

> > It explicitly lays out an expanded array of civil rights and governmental
> > limitations that will come to be in the new Florida. It also lays out the
> > groundwork for a Constitutional Convention within the next year that will
> > enshrine these rights, currently enjoyed by non-colonial Floridians, for
> > all.
> 
> Sounds alright.

This period is as much about internal development of Florida than about petty
conquests.

> > For example, current (colonial era) restrictions on the press, religious
> > rights, sufferage and migration will be lifted.
> 
> There are no current colonial era restrictions in the Cruzan Constitution.

There are an appaling number of Governors, however, who have operated quite
independently of their colonial home offices. They make Florida's mistreatment of their territories look good!

> > As of now, most colonies have decent educational systems (but are not
> > accessible to all) and poor healthcare.
> 
> That's not a fair assessment. It's difficult to provide decent educational
> and healthcare systems when the land is under dispute.

Shamefully (?), annexed territories have not always been treated as equal to
the Provinces. Anyway, even prior to 1946, medical facilities in the Cruzans
were somewhat lacking. Medical facilities in all territories will be brought up
to AMF (Floridian Assiciation of Physicians) standards; for international
comparison, these standards are equivalent to Kemrese and American standards.
[I.e., the Best! :) ]

Educational standards will also have to be brought up to spec. Local Boards of
Education will largely remain in control of local schools; but the standards
and curricula must meet national goals. Some localities will have an
established BoE imposed upon them for one reason or another; usually because
the locality is too small or poor.

> > Those too will change. Economic issues are to be dealt with, on a national
> > and regional basis, and the range of inflated colonial currencies are to
> > be abolished in favour of the peso.
> 
> If that's so, that would mean that that the Cruzan islands would be an
> affiliated SR state rather a freely associated one.

Sounds about right.

> ***
> 
> The Cruzan Constitution must be respected. 

Such parts of it that do not contradict National Law or the Constitution will
be left intact. The Constitution of the Presidency is the supreme Law of the
country; as such, it must not be superceded by any Provincial constitution or
territorial legal code.

> As dictated by the Cruzan Constitution, any changes to the sovereignty of
> the Cruzan Islands must be put to a referendum, where only Cruzan citizens
> can vote.

A mere formality, however.

> There are two sovereignty issues in the Floridian plan that needs to be put
> to a referendum: 1) The change of the Cruzan Island's sovereignty status from
> an SR state to a condominium state between the SR and Florida.

While the de facto annexation of the Cruzans in 1946 is immutable; such a vote
would not be disallowed, and could be considered cathartic.

We shall simply have to hope that the Cruzados will see sense and won't be
unduly swayed by spin and propaganda!! ;)

> 2) The change in the currency.
> 
> Obviously, it'd be most practical to put (1) to the vote first. If the result
> is a "yes" to the change in sovereignty, then (2) can be put to the vote.
> 
> If the vote to (1) is a "no", then the plan must be revised and then put
> through another referendum.

It must be stressed once again that, while the Plan is for the benefit of the
territories, the consent of the territories is not a prerequisite.

The only consent that is required for the fullness of the Plan to take effect
is that of the former colonial governments. This consent is required for issues such as state of war or peace and for condominiumhood to take effect.

That the Cruzados are allowed varying levels of "choice" in the matter is
singular (and, rumour has it that the Cruzan Provision only barely passed
through Congress). Most territories will simply have the Plan and a new
government imposed, and that shall be that. 

> ***
> 
> The probationary period of the condominium status must be discussed in more
> detail. How long is the period? What are the conditions of the probation?

Ah. The probationary period is only to take effect in Mobile (Florida del
Occidente). After that period and an evaluation process, the annexed territory will be returned to the NAL province of Mobile.

The reason for this is simple: Mobile was temporarily siezed as a means of a) keeping Lousiana in check and b) preventing the NAL easy access to the Gulf
from the west. Assuming that the GM and the FP give their Governments' nod of
approval to the Treaty, Mobile will be returned unmolested. As it stands, the
internal governance of Mobile is unaltered and life has continued unchanged
apart from a strict border control policy.

> ***
> 
> The SR's share of the condominium only involves the territory within Cruzan
> sovereignty. Therefore, the SR and the Cruzan gov'ts will not accept getting
> involved in any conflict that Florida may be drawn into. 

The Nation would not expect help from the SR. The Armed Forces have long been a
voluntary organistion (since 1983): Cruzados will be free to choose whether or
not to engage in military services to the Nation. Naturally, such will be
encouraged but none will be compelled or drafted. Also, under the new migration
policies, any that wish to render military service to the SR or one of its
states shall be free to do so. In fact, a portion of their time served would
count towards retirement benefits from the Floridian Military should they
decide to pursue such a career. The only stipulation is: should the SR and
Florida engage in war during their time of service in the SR military, such
persons serving with the SR will not be allowed to return to Florida.

It should also be stressed that the Islas Cruzadas will become a coequal
province within the Presidency. As such, Provincial cooperation will be
required!

> This includes fighting privateers and covert operatives outside the
> territorial waters and airspace of the Cruzan Islands, whether they are our
> citizens or foreign citizens.

Any Cruzan officer that refuses to render aid to any Floridian military vessel,
or to any commercial vessel regardless of registration, will be subject to
military Law. It might also be of interest to note that, under the Floridian
military code, our vessels would be required to render assistance to
Scandinavian military vessels that come under attack; whether or not the
Government is officially involved in the matter. Same would apply to American
and Scottish vessels under attack.

> On a related note: The SR privateering fleet has at the moment been
> instructed to pause on their activities. 

The SR is to be commended for this action! Naval forces will be alerted of the
change in status of these irregulars.

> But a few private military companies are anticipating the end of their
> services. Some that have surrendered their privateering licenses intend
> to go on without legal backing from the SR.

They will naturally remain fair game for persuit, seizure and punishment as
previously.

> ***
> 
> The map provided by the plan is incorrect. The
> Cruzan Islands also
> includes the Crab (Vieques) and Culebra
> Islands. If it indeed was the
> intention of the plan that Crab and Culebra
> islands be taken from
> Cruzan sovereignty, then this must also be put
> to a referendum.

Ah yes. The original plan was to draw the line at
65degW, thus creating Eastern and Western
Antilles regions. Margarita and Tortuga would
thus have become a Province. Final provincial
boundaries have not been decided on as of yet;
but it is seen as a Good Thing for "colonial
units" to continue as Provinces. Thus, I am sure
that those two islands will remain with the
Cruzans.

The updated map is corrected to reflect proper
Cruzan territorial extent. It also shows the
(most likely) finalised boundaries for the
English and French and Batavian islands.

*****

As a side note, regarding the use of terms like
"territory" and "province". The Presidency is
divided up in various fashions to allow for
smooth local governance that interfaces will with
higher levels of Government.

At the top, naturally, is the Constitution, which
is the supreme Law in effect within the
territorial extent of the Presidency. Neither
foreign laws nor lower level charters must be
allowed to supercede it. Under the C comes the
National Congress, the President, the Court
systems and all local constitutions and charters.

Under Congress come all the civil Provinces
(Florida, Cuba, Hispaniola, etc.) and Territories
(Cruzans, Bahamas, Batavian Antilles, etc.), each
Province having a Governor and an assembly. Each
Province may be further divided into Prefectures
(roughly counties in the US) and Municipalities
which are the local units of government. The
Territories are generally overseen by a
Territorial Governor, often in conjunction with
the precolonial government that may still be in
place. Traditionally, these have been the
personal fiefs of senior Congressmen or business
leaders (undoubtedly, this has been one of the
principal complaints of the Cruzados!); as they
were not responsible to the people of their fief
and only marginally responsible to Congress. This
state of affairs was altered in 1996; but little
has been done to relieve the situation since.
Hence the Plan. Usually, a Territroy is not
subdivided; but that will undoubtedly change once
Provincial status is conferred.

Under the President come the Military Provinces,
which are those areas that are under direct
military governance. Curently, Hayti, Turks &
Caycos and Caymans are the only M-Ps. A military
governor is assigned by the War Department and
that person is in charge of keeping order and
offering basic infrastructure support. Any local
subdivisions and government structures are
suspended pending return to postwar civil
control. Also suspended or restricted are civil
rights, the press, etc.

Under the Department of the Navy come the special
Naval Provinces. These are, especially, the San
Andres group and Swan Is. Any cay or small rock
not privately owned, any lighthouse installation
and any deep-anchored naval station in the
Atlantic fall under this category. For the most
part, there are no civilians on these places and
the military code is in effect.

In general, each Province and Territory has its
own tradition of government and its own
constitutions or colonial charters. For the most
part, those will be swept away in order to
eliminate any colonial influence; local
populations will be required to formulate new
constitutions. If they don't do it now while the
Plan is taking effect, they will probably have to
do so once the National Constitution is
considered in next year's convention.

Padraic.
 

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:27:39 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go? 

----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 30. juni 2003 19:05
Emne: Re: [conculture] Two wars down, one to go?


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
-----<snip>-----
> > Anyways, the plan looks fairly reasonable. But
> > there are a couple of
> > adjustments and clarifiactions that'll have to
> > be made before it is
> > fully acceptable to both the SR and the Cruzan
> > gov't-in-exile.
>
> Just to make a clarification: for the most part,
> the Plan is not a negotiable offer. Certainly,
> there are points where some leeway will be
> granted (and know this: the Cruzans are being
> given more leeway than any other territory!); but
> the Cruzados must be more accepting of reality as
> well.

I'm sure most are all tire of the conflict 
anyways. But there are also
ultra-right wing conservatives, particularly the 
majority of white
Cruzans and a few mulattos, who want to keep the 
close relationship
with the SR.

All Cruzans, however, agree that the islands must 
remain a sovereign
state with its own constitution. So the current 
debate in the islands
evolves around the question of how free the 
Cruzans will be under
Floridan dominance. Apparently (from what I read 
below), the Cruzan
Islands have under Floridan occupation been ruled 
as personal fiefdoms
of senior
Congressmen with utter disregard for the Cruzan 
Constitution.

First impressions last, I'm afraid. Most Cruzans 
are sceptical of the
plan. Protest demonstrations against the peace 
plan are right now
being held in Frihetpark (Emancipation Park) 
outside Die Groenhus
("The Green House", which is the Cruzan 
parliamentary building) in
Charlotte Amalie. The people haven't forgotten 
that Florida robbed the
Cruzans of their sovereignty in '46 without 
asking first, and there
are serious doubts that Florida will take any 
referendum over Cruzan
sovereignty seriously. Many are convinced that 
all that Florida wants
is the SR off its back.

-----<snip>-----
> > Ah yes... all those colorful neo-classical
> > dano-norwegian buildings in
> > Charlotte Amalie, Frederiksted, and
> > Christiansted. They'll have to be
> > renovated. Especially for the tourism industry.
>
> Naturally. Tourism is the big draw in most of the
> territories!
>
> Also, what do those cities correspond to *here*?
> I might as well change those on the map.

They're exactly the same as *here*. Charlotte 
Amalie, the capital, is
on the island of Saint Thomas. The other two 
towns are found on Saint
Croix. Saint John is a National Park.

But here a couple of things you could change on 
the map. Since all of
the Virgin Islands of *here* plus the islands of 
Culebra and Vieques
are called the Cruzan Islands *there*, then some 
of them would have to
be renamed. Here's what I propose:

The three islands of the former Danish West 
Indies *here* (Saint
Thomas, Saint John, and Saint Croix) have the 
same names *there*,
though I'd prefer Saint John to be called by it's 
Scandinavian name,
"Saint Jan". This will also avoid confusion with 
"San Juan", which is
the original name of Puerto Rico anyway. You 
might even want to go all
the way and replace "Saint" by the more 
Scandinavian "Sankt".
Afterall, nobody calls "San Juan" as "Saint 
John".

The islands of the British Virgin Islands *here* 
would also have
Scandinavian names. The same goes for the islands 
of Culebra and
Vieques. I'll name them after Scandinavian saints 
or other saints that
are important to Scandinavian history. The name 
changes I suggest are:
      -Tortola *here*      = Sankt Olav *there*
      -Virgin Gorda *here* = Sankt Knud *there*
      -Anegada *here*      = Sankt Birgitta *there*
      -Culebra *here*      = Sankt Hans *there*
      -Vieques *here*      = Sankt Alban *there*

The capital of the British Virgin Islands *here* 
is Roadtown, which
can be translated into IB's Rigsmål as "Vegby".

On the Vieques there is a town called Isabela 
Segunda. This should be
changed to Hoppesby, name after viceadmiral 
Hoppe, who raised the
Dannebrog on the island a second time in 1688 to 
assert Dano-Norwegian
claims to the island.

> > Fresh water has also always been a problem
>
> [Actually, I didn't know that!]

The only local source of fresh water comes from 
rainwater cisterns
underneath each and every building on the 
islands. I have even read
that *here* tourists are adviced only to flush 
the toilet after doing
number two. It's a typical problem for tiny 
(sub)tropical islands like
Bermuda and the Lesser Antilles.

-----<snip>-----
> > Autonomy is important. Question is, what new
> > status would the Cruzan
> > Islands have? If the Cruzan Islands are to
> > become a condominium, how
> > much autonomy will they have from the Floridian
> > gov't?
>
> Naturally, local governance will have to come
> from the Cruzados themselves; just like any other
> province. Matters of defense, international
> diplomacy and the like will come from the
> appropriate capital (either Miami or La Habana);

Or Gjøteborg or DVC ("Det Vestindisk-Guinea 
Compagnie" - which is the
Guinea-Westindian naval fleet of the SR).

> just like any other province.

Just like any other associated or affiliated 
state of the SR.

> > Would the
> > Cruzan gov't still be in free association with
> > the SR gov't, or would
> > it have to be reclassified as an affiliate to
> > the SR gov't (like New Sweden and New Iceland)?
>
> More the latter. Florida isn't _quite_ as
> loose-reined as the NAL in this matter. It would
> be a little more like a US state *here*: this is
> not a revocable union, and external matters of
> defense and diplomacy are to be handled from
> Miami without consultation with the SR.

This will have to be put through a referendum. 
Only if the Cruzans
themselves say "yes" to a change in sovereignty 
will the SR government
surrender its obligations of defence and 
diplomacy.

-----<snip>-----
> > > For example, current (colonial era)
> > > restrictions
> > > on the press, religious rights, sufferage and
> > > migration will be lifted.
> >
> > There are no current colonial era restrictions
> > in the Cruzan Constitution.
>
> There are an appaling number of Governors,
> however, who have operated quite independently of
> their colonial home offices. They make Florida's
> mistreatment of their territories look good!

Naturally, the Cruzan Prime Minister and his 
government operates quite
independently of the SR government in issues 
other than defense and
foreign diplomacy. The Cruzan Islands got their 
independence in 1936
afterall. They have had their own parliament with 
their own PM ever
since. So no Governers to speak of. This 
independence, however, is
something that the Cruzans will not want to give 
up.

-----<snip>-----
> > ***
> >
> > The Cruzan Constitution must be respected.
>
> Such parts of it that do not contradict National
> Law or the Constitution will be left intact. The
> Constitution of the Presidency is the supreme Law
> of the country; as such, it must not be
> superceded by any Provincial constitution or
> territorial legal code.

In other words, a loss of Cruzan sovereignty. 
That's a hard sell to
the Cruzans. They were, afterall, a sovereign 
state in personal union
and free association with the SR. But the 
Floridan plan wants to
reduce the Cruzan state to nothing more than a 
province.

> > As dictated by the Cruzan
> > Constitution, any changes to the sovereignty of
> > the Cruzan Islands
> > must be put to a referendum, where only Cruzan
> > citizens can vote.
>
> A mere formality, however.

No... This is a serious. It has to be respected.

> > There are two sovereignty issues in the
> > Floridian plan that needs to
> > be put to a referendum:
> >    1) The change of the Cruzan Island's
> > sovereignty status from an SR state to a
> > condominium state between the SR and Florida.
>
> While the de facto annexation of the Cruzans in
> 1946 is immutable; such a vote would not be
> disallowed, and could be considered cathartic.

The SR and Cruzan governments disagree entirely. 
It'll have to be
mutable should the Cruzans decide it to be so in 
a referendum. The
referendum should not be considered a purgative 
act at all. The result
should be binding and respected by Florida.

> We shall simply have to hope that the Cruzados
> will see sense and won't be unduly swayed by spin
> and propaganda!! ;)

Let's hope so!! ;)

> >    2) The change in the currency.
> >
> > Obviously, it'd be most practical to put (1) to
> > the vote first. If the
> > result is a "yes" to the change in sovereignty,
> > then (2) can be put to the vote.
> >
> > If the vote to (1) is a "no", then the plan
> > must be revised and then
> > put through another referendum.
>
> It must be stressed once again that, while the
> Plan is for the benefit of the territories, the
> consent of the territories is not a prerequisite.

It's important to have the consent of the Cruzan 
Government, unless
you want to insult them. Remember, it's a 
sovereign state.

> The only consent that is required for the
> fullness of the Plan to take effect is that of
> the former colonial governments. This consent is
> required for issues such as state of war or peace
> and for condominiumhood to take effect.

Once again, that's for the Cruzados to decide.

> That the Cruzados are allowed varying levels of
> "choice" in the matter is singular (and, rumour
> has it that the Cruzan Provision only barely
> passed through Congress). Most territories will
> simply have the Plan and a new government
> imposed, and that shall be that.

The difference between most other territories and 
the Cruzan Islands,
as far as I can gather, is that the Cruzan 
Islands were a sovereign
state, like Hayti, and the others were not. 
Granted, unlike Hayti, the
Cruzan Islands were freely associated with the 
SR. Anyways, that's why
"choice" is important.

This makes me wonder... what about Hayti?

> > ***
> >
> > The probationary period of the condominium
> > status must be discussed in
> > more detail. How long is the period? What are
> > the conditions of the probation?
>
> Ah. The probationary period is only to take
> effect in Mobile (Florida del Occidente).
-----<snip>-----

That's unfair, as far as the Cruzans are 
concerned.

-----<snip>-----
> > The map provided by the plan is incorrect. The
> > Cruzan Islands also
> > includes the Crab (Vieques) and Culebra
> > Islands. If it indeed was the
> > intention of the plan that Crab and Culebra
> > islands be taken from
> > Cruzan sovereignty, then this must also be put
> > to a referendum.
>
> Ah yes. The original plan was to draw the line at
> 65degW, thus creating Eastern and Western
> Antilles regions. Margarita and Tortuga would
> thus have become a Province. Final provincial
> boundaries have not been decided on as of yet;
> but it is seen as a Good Thing for "colonial
> units" to continue as Provinces. Thus, I am sure
> that those two islands will remain with the
> Cruzans.

That's better.

-----<snip>-----
> As a side note, regarding the use of terms like
> "territory" and "province". The Presidency is
> divided up in various fashions to allow for
> smooth local governance that interfaces will with
> higher levels of Government.

-----<snip detailed description>-----

OK... it's much clearer now what Florida wants to 
do with the Cruzan
Islands. I originally thought, when you mentioned 
"condominium"
status, that Florida proposed the Cruzan Islands 
to become
affiliated/associated with _both_ Florida and the 
SR while still
keeping its sovereignty. But looks like there is 
some truth to the
concerns express by the protest demonstrations in 
Charlotte Amalie.
It's clear now that what Florida really wants is 
to reduce a sovereign
state into a province/territory. Of course, 
that's acceptable only if
the Cruzans themselves accept. Therefore, it's 
imperative that the
Cruzan Constitution be respected, and a 
referendum held over whether
the Cruzan Islands are to remain a sovereign 
state or become a
Floridian province/territory. It's imperative 
that the referendum be
respected by Florida, and not be reduced to a 
cathartic gesture. If
not, then I'm afraid this peace negotiation will 
fail and hostilities
will resume.

-kristian-
 

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:24:02 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 

--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Just to make a clarification: for the most
> > part, the Plan is not a negotiable offer.
> > Certainly,
> > there are points where some leeway will be
> > granted (and know this: the Cruzans are being
> > given more leeway than any other territory!);
> > but
> > the Cruzados must be more accepting of
> > reality as well.
> 
> I'm sure most are all tire of the conflict
> anyways. But there are also
> ultra-right wing conservatives, particularly
> the majority of white
> Cruzans and a few mulattos, who want to keep
> the close relationship with the SR.

Imperialist collaborators!

> All Cruzans, however, agree that the islands
> must remain a sovereign
> state with its own constitution. 

Ah - well, that kind of attitude is going to eb
the cause of trouble!

> So the current debate in the islands
> evolves around the question of how free the
> Cruzans will be under Floridan dominance. 

This will largely depend on how sensible the
Cruzados show themselves to be over the next
weeks. The Floridian Government has espressed no
official opinion on the matter, but the Press has
said in no uncertain terms that the "referendum"
will in reality be a vote on whether the Cruzan
Iss. should become a newly honoured Province of
the Presidency, or be reduced to a military
territory.

The question then would seem to be: do the
Cruzados desire to accept terms and the liberties
enjoyed by Floridian citizens; or do they wish to
subjugate themselves to military dictatorship?

> Apparently (from what I read below), the Cruzan
> Islands have under Floridan occupation been
> ruled as personal fiefdoms of senior
> Congressmen with utter disregard for the Cruzan
> Constitution.

Depends on the Congressman that has controlled
the islands. The first was a terror (and as you
say later about first impressions...); recent
decades have seen laisez faire rulers who have
been content to take a cut of territorial funds
and let the Parliament do as it will. The current
incumbent, one Alonso Rivera, has been the
strongest support _for_ Cruzado rights since the
indpendence movement of the 1930s.

As one of the architechts of the Plan, you can
thank him for the fact that Charlotte Amalie is
not in ruins as is Port au Prince, and that
military presence has been minimal.

> First impressions last, I'm afraid. Most
> Cruzans are sceptical of the
> plan. 

I suppose that's to be expected - but they really
don't have a choice in the matter.

> Protest demonstrations against the peace
> plan are right now
> being held in Frihetpark (Emancipation Park)
> outside Die Groenhus
> ("The Green House", which is the Cruzan
> parliamentary building) in
> Charlotte Amalie. The people haven't forgotten
> that Florida robbed the
> Cruzans of their sovereignty in '46 without
> asking first, 

That's a matter of debate! Rather: The War of
Liberation (1898) set in motion great events in
the Caribbean basin. The first leaders of the new
Republic saw as their vision a great and free
nation of all Caribbian peoples; and set forth to
make that vision reality. Those that they could
find willing to join up were welcommed; others
they cajolled or bought. Some were resistant -
those need to be swept aside.

> and there
> are serious doubts that Florida will take any
> referendum over Cruzan sovereignty seriously. 

To the contrary: the Congress is awaiting
developments in Charlotte Amalie with great
interest! It is true that Florida does not wish
to wage a war with a power such as the SR (and it
has long understood the SR to have little
interest in the Cruzan Iss); but their own
notions of nationhood and Destino Castellano will
not likely be deterred.

> Many are convinced that
> all that Florida wants is the SR off its back.

That is part of it, to be sure.

> -----<snip>-----
> > > Autonomy is important. Question is, what
> > > new status would the Cruzan
> > > Islands have? If the Cruzan Islands are to
> > > become a condominium, how
> > > much autonomy will they have from the
> > > Floridian gov't?
> >
> > Naturally, local governance will have to come
> > from the Cruzados themselves; just like any other
> > province. Matters of defense, international
> > diplomacy and the like will come from the
> > appropriate capital (either Miami or La
> > Habana);
> 
> Or Gjøteborg or DVC ("Det Vestindisk-Guinea
> Compagnie" - which is the
> Guinea-Westindian naval fleet of the SR).

Mm. That will not be acceptable! Gjoteborg is not
a capital of the Presidency of Florida; its
government was not duly constituted according to
national Law.

While there are things that the condominium
status would allow to come from Gjoteburg,
defence and foreign policy are not two of them.

> -----<snip>-----
> > > > For example, current (colonial era)
> > > > restrictions
> > > > on the press, religious rights, sufferage and
> > > > migration will be lifted.
> > >
> > > There are no current colonial era restrictions
> > > in the Cruzan Constitution.
> >
> > There are an appaling number of Governors,
> > however, who have operated quite independently of
> > their colonial home offices. They make Florida's
> > mistreatment of their territories look good!
> 
> Naturally, the Cruzan Prime Minister and his
> government operates quite
> independently of the SR government in issues
> other than defense and foreign diplomacy. 

That, certainly, would not change under the new
constitution.

> The Cruzan Islands got their independence in 
> 1936 afterall. They have had their own 
> parliament with their own PM ever
> since. So no Governers to speak of. This
> independence, however, is
> something that the Cruzans will not want to
> give up.

It shall be an Interesting Time down the Islands!

> -----<snip>-----
> > > ***
> > >
> > > The Cruzan Constitution must be respected.
> >
> > Such parts of it that do not contradict National
> > Law or the Constitution will be left intact. The
> > Constitution of the Presidency is the supreme Law
> > of the country; as such, it must not be
> > superceded by any Provincial constitution or
> > territorial legal code.
> 
> In other words, a loss of Cruzan sovereignty.

As an "independent" country, yes. Of course,
that's something that has not been reality since
1946...

> That's a hard sell to
> the Cruzans. They were, afterall, a sovereign
> state in personal union
> and free association with the SR. But the
> Floridan plan wants to
> reduce the Cruzan state to nothing more than a
> province.

There is one Republic! And one Government
encompassed it!

> > > As dictated by the Cruzan
> > > Constitution, any changes to the sovereignty of
> > > the Cruzan Islands
> > > must be put to a referendum, where only Cruzan
> > > citizens can vote.
> >
> > A mere formality, however.
> 
> No... This is a serious. It has to be
> respected.

Oo. While I personally agree, Florida does not
see it this way. The Cruzans are teetering on the
border of a state of rebellion. Florida's
nationalsit ideals do not (and have never) gotten
along well with powerful regions - to say nothing
of (semi)independent ones. I fear that the Plan
will not reach its fullness, and that hostilities
between the SR and Florida may be unavoidable.

> > > There are two sovereignty issues in the
> > > Floridian plan that needs to
> > > be put to a referendum:
> > >    1) The change of the Cruzan Island's
> > > sovereignty status from an SR state to a
> > > condominium state between the SR and Florida.
> >
> > While the de facto annexation of the Cruzans
> > in
> > 1946 is immutable; such a vote would not be
> > disallowed, and could be considered cathartic.
> 
> The SR and Cruzan governments disagree
> entirely. It'll have to be
> mutable should the Cruzans decide it to be so
> in a referendum. 

As the Governor of San Juan said this week: "If
they should vote _no_ in their referendum, they
should prepare to drag their islands back to
Scandinavia."

> The
> referendum should not be considered a purgative
> act at all. The result
> should be binding and respected by Florida.

You ask a sovereign nation to allow the excision
of an integral part of its whole!

> > >    2) The change in the currency.
> > >
> > > Obviously, it'd be most practical to put (1) to
> > > the vote first. If the
> > > result is a "yes" to the change in sovereignty,
> > > then (2) can be put to the vote.
> > >
> > > If the vote to (1) is a "no", then the plan
> > > must be revised and then
> > > put through another referendum.
> >
> > It must be stressed once again that, while
> > the
> > Plan is for the benefit of the territories,
> > the
> > consent of the territories is not a
> > prerequisite.
> 
> It's important to have the consent of the
> Cruzan Government, unless
> you want to insult them. Remember, it's a
> sovereign state.

Was. In 1946. It has long led a coddled, half
vanquished existence for half a century. Also
from San Juan this week: "They ought to have been
dealt with sternly in the 1940s. We wouldn't be
having all these protests now had the Government
clamped down on them from the first." I suppose
it is the fault of the Government for allowing
the Cruzados to maintain the idea they were not,
in fact, Antilleanos! ;)

> > That the Cruzados are allowed varying levels of
> > "choice" in the matter is singular (and, rumour
> > has it that the Cruzan Provision only barely
> > passed through Congress). Most territories will
> > simply have the Plan and a new government
> > imposed, and that shall be that.
> 
> The difference between most other territories
> and the Cruzan Islands,
> as far as I can gather, is that the Cruzan
> Islands were a sovereign
> state, like Hayti, and the others were not.

Once again, a matter of interpretation. _All_
Caribbean islands are considered sovereign
territory of the Republic. The difference lies
only in whether they are in rebellion or not.

> Granted, unlike Hayti, the
> Cruzan Islands were freely associated with the
> SR. Anyways, that's why "choice" is important.
> 
> This makes me wonder... what about Hayti?

It will, in time, most likely be returned to
Hispañola. It is clear that Hayti is in no
position to become a Province on its own. It is
ruined, and it is still seething. It will be a
while before things calm down and reality sinks
in. It will be even longer before civilian
governance can take over.

> > > The probationary period of the condominium
> > > status must be discussed in
> > > more detail. How long is the period? What
> > > are the conditions of the probation?
> >
> > Ah. The probationary period is only to take
> > effect in Mobile (Florida del Occidente).
> -----<snip>-----
> 
> That's unfair, as far as the Cruzans are
> concerned.

The Cruzan Iss. were not temporarily siezed as an
exigency of national defence! They are integral
territory of the Republic - Mobile is not.

I guess I didn't answer the question anyway:

The terms of the Mobile portion of the Plan are
to secure the cooperation of the NAL. Blunt,
perhaps, but that's the way of it. As a
concilatory offering, Bahamas and Jamaica are to
become condominium provinces with the NAL. Mobile
at the same time will become a temporary
condominium. If the NAL agrees to the Treaty
_and_ forgoes future hostilities in cooperation
with European powers, the condominium status will
end and Mobile will be returned to full NAL
sovereignty, and a rent will be paid. It will be
as if Florida never occupied that territroy. The
term is set for a period of six months from
acceptance of the Treaty. Both provinces may opt
out of the condominium after five years, thus
becomming normal Floridian provinces.

The actual condominium has provisions for
favoured trading status (reduced or no taxes for
businesses and importers), relaxed migration
rules (both in and out, and contrary to hype,
Florida-Caribbea is not a bad place to live in at
all!), conjoined military exercises, military and
civilian observer programmes (representatives
from Philadelphia can observe progress of the
Plan in Bahamas and Jamaica and make enforceable
recommendations to Miami), Bahamians and
Jamaicans will either gain or regain dual
citizenship, and can choose for themselves which
elections process to take part in (either the
American or the Floridian, but not both in an
elections cycle, except for local elections),
education and governance will continue in the
local languages (though, naturally, Castillian
will be taught as a second language in those
areas that are not already Spanish speaking) and
if that local language is not already so, it
shall become a fully legal language within the
Republic, and the list goes on. Largely the same
deal being offered to the Cruzan Iss. The main
exception is that the Cruzados are being allowed
a choice in the matter; while this solution is to
be implemented in the other territories as early
as 04.07.03.

[Aside: Obviously, it doesn't seem like a choice
to the Cruzados! But from the Floridian
perspective, the Cruzados are being allowed the
chance to go on living largely as they have for
the last 50 years if only they call themselves
"Floridians" in stead of "Scandinavians" (by
nation, not heritage); or, make a go of full
independence and face the might of the Floridian
armed forces, should the SR decide to butt in. I
might add that Jaime is most emphatically _NOT_
Jorge in this matter! Tejas was a push over;
Florida is a nother kettle of fish, as will be
seen shortly...]

As far as the two erstwhile NAL provinces go,
Bahamas are keen on the idea (though would prefer
to return to full NAL sovereignty); Jamaica is
much less keen, and as of now is thought to be
most likely to opt out of the condominium. Though
the economic advantages might sway them to stay
on for a while.

> -----<snip>-----

> > Ah yes. The original plan was to draw the
> > line at 65degW,

> That's better.

I'm sure it won't solve everything, but it is to
be hoped that concessions like these will put
some of the Cruzados' fears to rest.

> OK... it's much clearer now what Florida wants
> to do with the Cruzan
> Islands. I originally thought, when you
> mentioned "condominium"
> status, that Florida proposed the Cruzan
> Islands to become
> affiliated/associated with _both_ Florida and
> the SR while still keeping its sovereignty. 

Ah, no. The Cruzans will become a province one
way or the other! The architects of the Plan hope
that they will in fact become a province that is
also in condominium with the SR.

But mind you, if they accept the Plan, the Cruzan
Iss. will be the _most_ independent Province
there is. Even the original Provinces don't enjoy
what the Cruzans are being offered!

> But looks like there is some truth to the
> concerns express by the protest demonstrations
> in Charlotte Amalie.

Yes. It is an unfortunate state of affairs.

> It's clear now that what Florida really wants
> is to reduce a sovereign
> state into a province/territory. Of course,
> that's acceptable only if
> the Cruzans themselves accept. 

Personally, I hope they do. While there are many
in Florida who are agitating for war, just to
spite the Cruzados - you know, teach em a lesson;
many more would prefer that they come to the
decision on their own. They realise that the
Government has made a decision to encompass the
whole Caribbean, but would prefer a peaceful
solution at last after so many wars.

> Therefore, it's imperative that the
> Cruzan Constitution be respected, 

And it probably will be. This Bush is not an
underhanded schemer at all. He has been convinced
to allow the Cruzados their say. What comes
_after_ that say...well, que será será! ;)

Any idea on when R-Day will take place?
Naturally, Congress has allotted monies for ad
campaigns and educational sessions. [And
undoubtedly, those warmongering Scandinavians
will be pouring their treasure into mudslinging
spindoctored propaganda blitzes!!! ;) ] Any
Cruzado who is willing will be brought to Miami
or any of the capitals to see how Floridian
government is _supposed_ to work. The President
himself would very much like to meet with the PM
and and MPs that would be willing.

****

And lastly: on the the Dalmatian Debacle!

Talk about a blow below the belt! Our good
friends in Dalmatia have shown their true
colours! Ybl talks a good line about nation
building and the fight for freedom; but can't see
that anyone else has that same right!

As a consequence, as of midnight, 02.07.03, all
Dalmatian assets in Florida will be seized
(cultural property, however, shall be returned as
soon as possible, i.e., the Dalmatian State
Orchestra); all goods in Floridian ports will be
seized; ships and airships will be impounded
(including the Raguza, currently on R&R in La
Habana - release of the crew pending); persons of
Dalmatian citizenship shall be deported to a
friendly, third party nation (Brasil); any entry
of Dalmatian registered vessels of war shall be
seen as an act of war; and because the Dalmatian
government sees fit to call our ministers liars,
the Dalmatian diplomatic corps shall be expelled,
pending satisfactory resolution of this incident.

Our allies in the region will decide their course
of action in the following days, though are not
expected to take _such_ a hardline stance.

As far as elections observers are concerned: what
do you take us for, some Mango Republic? Florida
will not allow foreigners into the sanctity of
the voting booth! The only observers allowed for
in the Plan are the usual local observers (i.e.,
Cruzan elections board officials), national
Floridian observers and Scandinavian obersvers.
The rest of you are welcome to butt out!

As far as the wonders of the Tesla Co. are
concerned - we can get parts from Germany (hell,
Canton, even!) on the cheap! :)

Padraic.





Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:18:43 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 


On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Costentin Cornomorus wrote:

> And lastly: on the the Dalmatian Debacle!
>
> Talk about a blow below the belt! Our good
> friends in Dalmatia have shown their true
> colours! Ybl talks a good line about nation
> building and the fight for freedom; but can't 
see
> that anyone else has that same right!

Not at the expense of the rights of other 
nations! Since the establishment
of the Republic, Dalmatia has never fought a war 
of aggression [note from
Ferko: some Serbs from the shortlived Republic of 
Serb Kozara might
disagree...], but solely wars of self-defence 
first against Ustasha
aggression, then against the aggression of the 
Islamic Republic of Sanjak.

Our Prime Minister is en ethnic German, he fought 
during the 44-47 civil
war on the side of the Dalmatian Freedom Front (a 
union of Dalmatian
nationalistic groups, both anti-Danubian, 
anti-Ustasha and
anti-Communist). Dalmatia has always been on the 
side of the oppressed
peoples of the world [note: Biafrans might 
disagree]. The Slovenian
Government has taken refuge in Dalmatia until the 
day of the liberation of
Slovenia from Ustasha oppression arrives.

On Radio Bosna there was a talkshow tonight. 
(Bosna being the region along
the Bosna river between Zenica and Czieta da 
Saray, home of 90% of the
Bosniaks [Dalmatian Muslims]; in the Saray Canton 
the MP is a
member of the governing Social Credit party, in 
the Zenica Canton the MP
is a member of the Dalmatian Radical Party, which 
formed the first
post-independence government). A call-in show was 
held as is held every
night, this evening the subject was the Cruzan 
Islands. Some interesting
quotes from callers:

Semsa Spahicz from Esczelza: "Why do we all of a 
sudden give a damn about
events in the Americas? We have more pressing 
matters to attend to here at
home to waste time bothering with those backward 
colonial types. Like why
it costs me 2 xenari for a pack of smokes when I 
make 3 xenari an hour!"

Fatma Muharemeska from Zavidovicz: "I agree with 
the decision to
renationalise properties owned by Floridians. In 
fact I think everything
owned by foreigners should be taken back, and all 
the foreigners expelled
from the country."

Nikolu Yonesku from Pontul da Ali Pasza (Czieta 
da Saray Ward 17): "I
don't know. On the one hand I agree with the 
previous caller who said we
have more pressing matters to attend to here at 
home. But, I don't think
we can restrict ourselves to domestic affairs. As 
a former colonial power
we have a status in the world which we have to 
maintain. Part of this
includes helping out nations that need help 
defending themselves from
aggression."

Izudin Huseynesku from Ilixha: "If one of the 
Dalmatophone countries is
Africa is attacked, our troops are almost 
immediately there to defend them
- this is true now, this was true in the KeSeSeDe 
[note: KeSeSeDe is the
common name of the CSDS in Dalmatian - KSSD], it 
was true even before that
in the days of the first Danubia, and certainly 
it was true in the days
under the eszdragei [=the Austrians, in 
colloquial speech]. These
Islands, Cruzan, right? Well, they're 
Scandinavian. Let the Scandinavians
go and blast the miarda out of the Floridans like 
we smashed the Mongols
[note: common term for Chinese] when they 
attacked Kongo."

Serxhan Dalmicz from Zenica: "I agree with the 
previous caller. That Bush
is just a Paya Patka [*here*, the Yugoslav name 
of Donald Duck. *There*, a
Dalmatian cartoon character, whose name is used 
like Mickey Mouse is
*here*] Pavelic - eh, not even Pavelic, Tudjman. 
He's just an uppity Paya
Patka colonial type who needs a swift kick in the 
arse. All those islands
they've occupied all deserve independence. If we 
don't help them but let
them be dominated by Bush, then why did we leave 
the KeSeSeDe? Why didn't
we stay and be oppressed by the Ustashe? We've 
spent all this money on our
new jets and long range rockets, well, let's use 
them. Send the Red Berets
into Florida like we sent them into Kozara and 
Sanjak, then we'll see if
they want to annoy us!"

The radio show's host's comments at the 
conclusion of the show, after
Serxhan Dalmicz finished speaking. "Well, that 
guy must be a member of the
Rads *chuckle*. But overall it would seem that 
the large majority of our
listeners and callers are in favour of the 
actions which have been taken
against Florida. Some are even calling for more 
drastic measures. My
personal opinion - not that of Radio Bosna - is 
that the intent behind the
actions was noble, but I think it could have been 
dealt with better,
perhaps with discussions with Florida first, at 
the head-of-state level.
As it stands, Ybl's action reminds me of someone 
from our past, our
Batyushka [=Lenin. Batyushka means something 
like, uncle, in Russian. In
children's books and songs Lenin was referred to 
as Batyushka Lenin -
Uncle Lenin.] Never was one to mull things over, 
just acted straight away.
Such things can be and usually are dangerous. 
With that, I bid you good
evening, enjoy our coverage of the second leg of 
the Dalmatian Cup final
which follows immediately, Dinamo Agram against 
Czelik Zenica at Kampa da
Bila in Zenica and a clean sheet - the first leg 
ended with a 0:0 score."

>
> As a consequence, as of midnight, 02.07.03, all
> Dalmatian assets in Florida will be seized
> (cultural property, however, shall be returned 
as
> soon as possible, i.e., the Dalmatian State
> Orchestra); all goods in Floridian ports will 
be
> seized; ships and airships will be impounded
> (including the Raguza, currently on R&R in La
> Habana - release of the crew pending); persons 
of
> Dalmatian citizenship shall be deported to a
> friendly, third party nation (Brasil); any 
entry
> of Dalmatian registered vessels of war shall be
> seen as an act of war; and because the 
Dalmatian
> government sees fit to call our ministers 
liars,
> the Dalmatian diplomatic corps shall be 
expelled,
> pending satisfactory resolution of this 
incident.

In response, all measures which exceed those 
which have been taken by
Dalmatia will now be taken by Dalmatia, including 
the expulsion of the
Floridian diplomatic corps. All Floridian 
citizens will be taken to the
nearest border. {note: and left there and not 
permitted reentry to
Dalmatia. God be with those taken to the Sanjaki 
and Croatian borders.
Albania will let them in without difficulty, so 
will Bulgaria. The Serbs
will likely let them in too, but charging 
exorbitant fees for visas -
which by law are free, but due to the low wages 
paid border guards in
Serbia, everyone overlooks this law to their 
personal gain.}

>
> Our allies in the region will decide their 
course
> of action in the following days, though are not
> expected to take _such_ a hardline stance.

Dalmatia has been around for over a thousand 
years. Certainly our
existence does not depend on a few Mango 
Republics. History is on our
side.

>
> As far as elections observers are concerned: 
what
> do you take us for, some Mango Republic? 
Florida

Unofficially: yes.

> will not allow foreigners into the sanctity of
> the voting booth! The only observers allowed 
for
> in the Plan are the usual local observers 
(i.e.,
> Cruzan elections board officials), national
> Floridian observers and Scandinavian obersvers.
> The rest of you are welcome to butt out!

In such case, the results of the elections, if 
not in favour of Cruzan
independence, will be viewed as rigged by the 
rest of the world...

>
> As far as the wonders of the Tesla Co. are
> concerned - we can get parts from Germany 
(hell,
> Canton, even!) on the cheap! :)

The embargo extends also to goods made under 
license from Dalmatian
patents - thus it is within the authority of the 
MFAIT to seize German and
Cantonese licensed reproductions of Tesla Co. 
technology bound for
Florida. (perhaps the carrier Aurial Vlaiku and 
her battle group will head
for the Atlantic...?)

>
> [AsideAnd where the bloody hell were you when
> poor Cornouaille was about to rise up against 
the
> mighty French oppressor!!?? They could have 
used
> some Dalmatian support? But what do they get?
> Nada!! ;) ]

When was this? Besides, Dalmatia still owes a big 
debt to France for
supplying arms during the last Balkan War...

----ferko
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy


Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:40:24 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 



----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 3. juli 2003 05:24
Emne: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars 
down, one to go? + How
close are we, really?


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
-----<snip>-----
> > So the current debate in the islands
> > evolves around the question of how free the
> > Cruzans will be under Floridan dominance.
>
> This will largely depend on how sensible the
> Cruzados show themselves to be over the next
> weeks. The Floridian Government has espressed 
no
> official opinion on the matter, but the Press 
has
> said in no uncertain terms that the 
"referendum"
> will in reality be a vote on whether the Cruzan
> Iss. should become a newly honoured Province of
> the Presidency, or be reduced to a military
> territory.
>
> The question then would seem to be: do the
> Cruzados desire to accept terms and the 
liberties
> enjoyed by Floridian citizens; or do they wish 
to
> subjugate themselves to military dictatorship?

If the choice were down to only those two, then 
the former option
would be an obvious choice. But a referendum 
offers a third, more
desirable, option: Cruzan sovereignty.

> > Apparently (from what I read below), the 
Cruzan
> > Islands have under Floridan occupation been
> > ruled as personal fiefdoms of senior
> > Congressmen with utter disregard for the 
Cruzan
> > Constitution.
>
> Depends on the Congressman that has controlled
> the islands. The first was a terror (and as you
> say later about first impressions...); recent
> decades have seen laisez faire rulers who have
> been content to take a cut of territorial funds
> and let the Parliament do as it will. The 
current
> incumbent, one Alonso Rivera, has been the
> strongest support _for_ Cruzado rights since 
the
> indpendence movement of the 1930s.
>
> As one of the architechts of the Plan, you can
> thank him for the fact that Charlotte Amalie is
> not in ruins as is Port au Prince, and that
> military presence has been minimal.

I'm sure many Cruzans appreciate this, and they 
urge Alonso Rivera to
support a referendum. Others, however, have 
expressed that he'll never
support such a referendum.

> > First impressions last, I'm afraid. Most
> > Cruzans are sceptical of the
> > plan.
>
> I suppose that's to be expected - but they 
really
> don't have a choice in the matter.

Yes... through a referendum.

> > Protest demonstrations against the peace
> > plan are right now
> > being held in Frihetpark (Emancipation Park)
> > outside Die Groenhus
> > ("The Green House", which is the Cruzan
> > parliamentary building) in
> > Charlotte Amalie. The people haven't 
forgotten
> > that Florida robbed the
> > Cruzans of their sovereignty in '46 without
> > asking first,
>
> That's a matter of debate! Rather: The War of
> Liberation (1898) set in motion great events in
> the Caribbean basin. The first leaders of the 
new
> Republic saw as their vision a great and free
> nation of all Caribbian peoples; and set forth 
to
> make that vision reality. Those that they could
> find willing to join up were welcommed; others
> they cajolled or bought. Some were resistant -
> those need to be swept aside.

...and robbed of their sovereignty.

> > and there
> > are serious doubts that Florida will take any
> > referendum over Cruzan sovereignty seriously.
>
> To the contrary: the Congress is awaiting
> developments in Charlotte Amalie with great
> interest!

What I meant was that Florida will not respect 
the result of the
referendum if it turns out to be not to their 
liking.

> It is true that Florida does not wish
> to wage a war with a power such as the SR (and 
it
> has long understood the SR to have little
> interest in the Cruzan Iss); but their own
> notions of nationhood and Destino Castellano 
will
> not likely be deterred.

...and the SR is not interested either in waging 
a war that is near
impossible to win in the long run if Florida 
sticks to her notions of
nationhood and Destino Castellano.

-----<snip>-----
> > > Naturally, local governance will have to 
come
> > > from the Cruzados themselves; just like any
> > other
> > > province. Matters of defense, international
> > > diplomacy and the like will come from the
> > > appropriate capital (either Miami or La
> > > Habana);
> >
> > Or Gjøteborg or DVC ("Det Vestindisk-Guinea
> > Compagnie" - which is the
> > Guinea-Westindian naval fleet of the SR).
>
> Mm. That will not be acceptable! Gjoteborg is 
not
> a capital of the Presidency of Florida; its
> government was not duly constituted according 
to
> national Law.
>
> While there are things that the condominium
> status would allow to come from Gjoteburg,
> defence and foreign policy are not two of them.

Oh OK. Fair enough. But the referendum has to be 
respected.

-----<snip>-----
> > In other words, a loss of Cruzan sovereignty.
>
> As an "independent" country, yes. Of course,
> that's something that has not been reality 
since
> 1946...

But both the SR government and the Cruzan 
government-in-exile has
never recognize the annexation of the Cruzan 
Islands to Florida. So it
has always considered the Cruzan Islands as 
independent with an exiled
government.

> > That's a hard sell to
> > the Cruzans. They were, afterall, a sovereign
> > state in personal union
> > and free association with the SR. But the
> > Floridan plan wants to
> > reduce the Cruzan state to nothing more than 
a
> > province.
>
> There is one Republic! And one Government
> encompassed it!

That's understood. But can't it be such that the 
annexed territories
are in free association with the Republic should 
they decide it to be
so in a referendum?

-----<snip>-----
> > > A mere formality, however.
> >
> > No... This is a serious. It has to be
> > respected.
>
> Oo. While I personally agree, Florida does not
> see it this way. The Cruzans are teetering on 
the
> border of a state of rebellion. Florida's
> nationalsit ideals do not (and have never) 
gotten
> along well with powerful regions - to say 
nothing
> of (semi)independent ones. I fear that the Plan
> will not reach its fullness, and that 
hostilities
> between the SR and Florida may be unavoidable.

I'm afraid so. <sigh> So close, yet so far.

-----<snip>-----
> > > While the de facto annexation of the 
Cruzans
> > > in
> > > 1946 is immutable; such a vote would not be
> > > disallowed, and could be considered
> > cathartic.
> >
> > The SR and Cruzan governments disagree
> > entirely. It'll have to be
> > mutable should the Cruzans decide it to be so
> > in a referendum.
>
> As the Governor of San Juan said this week: "If
> they should vote _no_ in their referendum, they
> should prepare to drag their islands back to
> Scandinavia."

Not physically possible, of course.

> > The
> > referendum should not be considered a 
purgative
> > act at all. The result
> > should be binding and respected by Florida.
>
> You ask a sovereign nation to allow the 
excision
> of an integral part of its whole!

SR and Cruzan position is that the Cruzan Islands 
were never an
integral part of Florida, but an occupied part.

-----<snip>-----
> > It's important to have the consent of the
> > Cruzan Government, unless
> > you want to insult them. Remember, it's a
> > sovereign state.
>
> Was. In 1946.

Still is. The exiled government, that is.

> It has long led a coddled, half
> vanquished existence for half a century. Also
> from San Juan this week: "They ought to have 
been
> dealt with sternly in the 1940s. We wouldn't be
> having all these protests now had the 
Government
> clamped down on them from the first." I suppose
> it is the fault of the Government for allowing
> the Cruzados to maintain the idea they were 
not,
> in fact, Antilleanos! ;)

Oh they're Antilleaners, alright. Just no 
Antilleanos. ;)

-----<snip>-----
> [Aside: Obviously, it doesn't seem like a 
choice
> to the Cruzados! But from the Floridian
> perspective, the Cruzados are being allowed the
> chance to go on living largely as they have for
> the last 50 years if only they call themselves
> "Floridians" in stead of "Scandinavians" (by
> nation, not heritage); or, make a go of full
> independence and face the might of the 
Floridian
> armed forces, should the SR decide to butt in. 
I
> might add that Jaime is most emphatically _NOT_
> Jorge in this matter! Tejas was a push over;
> Florida is a nother kettle of fish, as will be
> seen shortly...]

Blackmail is what it sounds like. This is the 
core of the problem. The
SR and the Cruzados want Florida to respect a 
referendum over Cruzan
sovereignty. "Respect" means that should the 
Cruzans decide in favor
of full independence, then Florida cannot use its 
military forces upon
the islands.

-----<snip>-----
> > OK... it's much clearer now what Florida 
wants
> > to do with the Cruzan
> > Islands. I originally thought, when you
> > mentioned "condominium"
> > status, that Florida proposed the Cruzan
> > Islands to become
> > affiliated/associated with _both_ Florida and
> > the SR while still keeping its sovereignty.
>
> Ah, no. The Cruzans will become a province one
> way or the other! The architects of the Plan 
hope
> that they will in fact become a province that 
is
> also in condominium with the SR.

Yes, I understand now.

> But mind you, if they accept the Plan, the 
Cruzan
> Iss. will be the _most_ independent Province
> there is. Even the original Provinces don't 
enjoy
> what the Cruzans are being offered!

How so?

-----<snip>-----
> > It's clear now that what Florida really wants
> > is to reduce a sovereign
> > state into a province/territory. Of course,
> > that's acceptable only if
> > the Cruzans themselves accept.
>
> Personally, I hope they do. While there are 
many
> in Florida who are agitating for war, just to
> spite the Cruzados - you know, teach em a 
lesson;


> many more would prefer that they come to the
> decision on their own. They realise that the
> Government has made a decision to encompass the
> whole Caribbean, but would prefer a peaceful
> solution at last after so many wars.

I'm also sure that many Cruzans and Scandinavians 
want a peaceful
solution too. Many are hoping, despite Florida's 
reputation to the
contrary, that Florida will respect the results 
of the referendum and
leave the Cruzan Islands alone should it be 
decided that the Cruzans
be independent.

But it does not help the Floridian case that they 
are basically
blackmailing the Cruzans to surrender their 
sovereignty. Many say that
the Cruzans and the SR ought to give in to the 
blackmail for the sake
of peace. But after learning more about the 
Floridian Plan, many more
now feel disgusted by the Floridian blackmail, 
and I'm sure there are
quite a few Cruzans who, knowing they have the SR 
as their guaranteur,
are agitating war just to spite the Floridians - 
y'know teach them a
lesson.

> > Therefore, it's imperative that the
> > Cruzan Constitution be respected,
>
> And it probably will be. This Bush is not an
> underhanded schemer at all. He has been 
convinced
> to allow the Cruzados their say. What comes
> _after_ that say...well, que será será! ;)

It's blackmail, I say, blackmail!

> Any idea on when R-Day will take place?

How's the end of the month sound? That should be 
sufficient time for
campaigning.

> Naturally, Congress has allotted monies for ad
> campaigns and educational sessions. [And
> undoubtedly, those warmongering Scandinavians
> will be pouring their treasure into mudslinging
> spindoctored propaganda blitzes!!! ;) ] Any
> Cruzado who is willing will be brought to Miami
> or any of the capitals to see how Floridian
> government is _supposed_ to work. The President
> himself would very much like to meet with the 
PM
> and and MPs that would be willing.

The Cruzan PM is already in Miami together with 
the SR Foreign
Minister. They were part of the delegation sent 
to Miami to disguss
the Floridian Plan.

-kristian-
 

Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:15:30 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 


--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> -----<snip>-----
> > The question then would seem to be: do the
> > Cruzados desire to accept terms and the
> > liberties
> > enjoyed by Floridian citizens; or do they
> > wish to subjugate themselves to military
> > dictatorship?
> 
> If the choice were down to only those two, then
> the former option
> would be an obvious choice. But a referendum
> offers a third, more desirable, option: Cruzan
> sovereignty.

Which, in the current Floridian understanding is
one and the same thing. That is, they don't
recognise the possibility of the Cruzans choosing
_and_keeping_ independence.

[snip]

> I'm sure many Cruzans appreciate this, and they
> urge Alonso Rivera to
> support a referendum. Others, however, have
> expressed that he'll never
> support such a referendum.

Why wouldn't he? It was his idea! He seems to be
pretty sure that _most_ average Cruzados would
prefer the stability of the status quo rather
than the uncertainty of the alternative. It's a
gamble, to be sure.

> ...and the SR is not interested either in
> waging a war that is near
> impossible to win in the long run if Florida
> sticks to her notions of
> nationhood and Destino Castellano.

It's kind of built into the national psyche.

> -----<snip>-----
> > > That's a hard sell to
> > > the Cruzans. They were, afterall, a
> sovereign
> > > state in personal union
> > > and free association with the SR. But the
> > > Floridan plan wants to
> > > reduce the Cruzan state to nothing more
> than a
> > > province.
> >
> > There is one Republic! And one Government
> > encompassed it!
> 
> That's understood. But can't it be such that
> the annexed territories
> are in free association with the Republic
> should they decide it to be so in a referendum?

I think there must be a cultural misunderstanding
on this point. To be quite blunt, there is
nothing in the Floridian / Spanish experience
that has prepared them for this impasse. They
don't understand what you (the Cruzados) really
mean by this. Nor do they really understand what
condominiums are all about, I think. It seems to
me that they went a little far in their offer - I
mean, for all pracitcal purposes, a post-Plan
Bahamian will be a NAL citizen in everything but
name. That's quite a bit more than most
condominium citizens experience. Likewise, a
post-Plan Cruzado could choose to be a Floridian
_only_ in name. Every other aspect of life could
remain the same.

_Hopefully_ the Cruzan PM will explain this to
Bush so that the best solution can be achieved. I
think that Florida truly fears losing its own
national sovereignty - but it may well be that
the Cruzan position is much more innocuous than
is commonly believed.

> -----<snip>-----
> > You ask a sovereign nation to allow the
> > excision of an integral part of its whole!
> 
> SR and Cruzan position is that the Cruzan
> Islands were never an
> integral part of Florida, but an occupied part.

:)

> -----<snip>-----
> > > It's important to have the consent of the
> > > Cruzan Government, unless
> > > you want to insult them. Remember, it's a
> > > sovereign state.
> >
> > Was. In 1946.
> 
> Still is. The exiled government, that is.

Little different than a mail order passport
issing organisation! ;)

> Oh they're Antilleaners, alright. Just no
> Antilleanos. ;)

:)

> -----<snip>-----
> > [Aside: Obviously, it doesn't seem like a
> choice
> > to the Cruzados! But from the Floridian
> > perspective, the Cruzados are being allowed
> the
> > chance to go on living largely as they have
> for
> > the last 50 years if only they call
> themselves
> > "Floridians" in stead of "Scandinavians" (by
> > nation, not heritage); or, make a go of full
> > independence and face the might of the
> Floridian
> > armed forces, should the SR decide to butt
> in. I
> > might add that Jaime is most emphatically
> _NOT_
> > Jorge in this matter! Tejas was a push over;
> > Florida is a nother kettle of fish, as will
> be
> > seen shortly...]
> 
> Blackmail is what it sounds like. 

Once again, this is probably a cultural
misunderstanding. Floridian jurisprudence would
understand "Blackmail" as a threat in order to
gain support for something; this is simply a
statement of fact.

> This is the core of the problem. The
> SR and the Cruzados want Florida to respect a
> referendum over Cruzan
> sovereignty. "Respect" means that should the
> Cruzans decide in favor
> of full independence, then Florida cannot use
> its military forces upon the islands.

I think issues of "Cruzan sovereignty" and SR
activities in the Cruzans would need to be worked
on.

There might be some wiggle room _if_ the Cruzans
opted for independence but accepted Floridian
defence. And if the SR were allowed to post
military units to the islands, Florida would at
least require a base and an observer programme. I
mean, they would have Floridian defence anyway:
they're surrounded by Floridian waters after all!

> -----<snip>-----
> > But mind you, if they accept the Plan, the
> Cruzan
> > Iss. will be the _most_ independent Province
> > there is. Even the original Provinces don't
> > enjoy what the Cruzans are being offered!
> 
> How so?

Well, no other citizens are able to obtain dual
citizenship; migration is somewhat restricted
(the Cruzans, as a condo with the SR, would allow
unrestricted movement between the two lands);
businesses must conform to the usual strictures
placed on international trade; etc.

> -----<snip>-----

> I'm also sure that many Cruzans and
> Scandinavians want a peaceful
> solution too. Many are hoping, despite
> Florida's reputation to the
> contrary, that Florida will respect the results
> of the referendum and
> leave the Cruzan Islands alone should it be
> decided that the Cruzans be independent.
> 
> But it does not help the Floridian case that
> they are basically
> blackmailing the Cruzans to surrender their
> sovereignty. 

I hardly think it blackmail! As if half a century
of annexation and military presence hasn't been
hint enough!

> Many say that
> the Cruzans and the SR ought to give in to the
> blackmail for the sake
> of peace. But after learning more about the
> Floridian Plan, many more
> now feel disgusted by the Floridian blackmail,

Hm. That could be a problem. I guess the more
moderate wing of Government will simply have to
push harder to get Bush to plainly accept
whatever the Cruzados decide.

> and I'm sure there are
> quite a few Cruzans who, knowing they have the
> SR as their guaranteur,
> are agitating war just to spite the Floridians
> - y'know teach them a lesson.

Quite! But, a lesson at what price?

> > Any idea on when R-Day will take place?
> 
> How's the end of the month sound? That should
> be sufficient time for campaigning.

Sounds good. It will give the Cruzados a month to
see how well the Bahamians like their new status.
Look out for the Convocación de la República
tomorrow at noon on Telenovial: the newly elected
Governors of Bahamas and Jamaica receive their
chains of office and the new Senators take their
seats in the Congress as well.

The NAL, at least, seems mollified by the Plan.

As for England and Kemr - they're clearly still
up for the Grand Coalition with the SR, should
things go awry. And even if they don't, they may
well decide to go in anyway and try to wrest
their colonies back.

> The Cruzan PM is already in Miami together with
> the SR Foreign
> Minister. They were part of the delegation sent
> to Miami to disguss the Floridian Plan.

Excellent! Hopefully, they can explain in simple
terms their understanding of things! [I wouldn't
mind being privy to _that_ meeting...]

Padraic.


Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:41:22 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 



----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 3. juli 2003 23:15
Emne: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two 
wars down, one to go? +
How close are we, really?


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > -----<snip>-----
> > > The question then would seem to be: do the
> > > Cruzados desire to accept terms and the
> > > liberties
> > > enjoyed by Floridian citizens; or do they
> > > wish to subjugate themselves to military
> > > dictatorship?
> >
> > If the choice were down to only those two, 
then
> > the former option
> > would be an obvious choice. But a referendum
> > offers a third, more desirable, option: 
Cruzan
> > sovereignty.
>
> Which, in the current Floridian understanding 
is
> one and the same thing. That is, they don't
> recognise the possibility of the Cruzans 
choosing
> _and_keeping_ independence.

Wierdness!

> [snip]
>
> > I'm sure many Cruzans appreciate this, and 
they
> > urge Alonso Rivera to
> > support a referendum. Others, however, have
> > expressed that he'll never
> > support such a referendum.
>
> Why wouldn't he? It was his idea!

Ooops, I'm sorry. I phrased that wrongly. Rivera 
does indeed support
it. That's clear. What I meant to say was that 
many Cruzans urge him
to _respect_ the results of the referendum, while 
some say that he
won't.

> He seems to be
> pretty sure that _most_ average Cruzados would
> prefer the stability of the status quo rather
> than the uncertainty of the alternative. It's a
> gamble, to be sure.

For sure!

> > ...and the SR is not interested either in
> > waging a war that is near
> > impossible to win in the long run if Florida
> > sticks to her notions of
> > nationhood and Destino Castellano.
>
> It's kind of built into the national psyche.

...making it all the more difficult to pursuade 
them of anything
contrary to their doctrine.

-----<snip>-----
> > > There is one Republic! And one Government
> > > encompassed it!
> >
> > That's understood. But can't it be such that
> > the annexed territories
> > are in free association with the Republic
> > should they decide it to be so in a 
referendum?
>
> I think there must be a cultural 
misunderstanding
> on this point.

I'm thinking the same thing...

> To be quite blunt, there is
> nothing in the Floridian / Spanish experience
> that has prepared them for this impasse. They
> don't understand what you (the Cruzados) really
> mean by this.

Really? No "Estado Associado Libre" (like Puerto 
Rico and Cuba
*here*)?

> Nor do they really understand what
> condominiums are all about, I think. It seems 
to
> me that they went a little far in their offer - 
I
> mean, for all pracitcal purposes, a post-Plan
> Bahamian will be a NAL citizen in everything 
but
> name. That's quite a bit more than most
> condominium citizens experience. Likewise, a
> post-Plan Cruzado could choose to be a 
Floridian
> _only_ in name. Every other aspect of life 
could
> remain the same.
>
> _Hopefully_ the Cruzan PM will explain this to
> Bush so that the best solution can be achieved. 
I
> think that Florida truly fears losing its own
> national sovereignty - but it may well be that
> the Cruzan position is much more innocuous than
> is commonly believed.

Well, it might depend on the eyes that see. But 
it's completely
innocent as far as the Cruzans and the SR are 
concerned. All that is
desired is Cruzan independence and for Florida to 
recognize this. All
other territorial claims in the region are not 
the concern of the
Cruzans nor the SR. Florida can do with the 
region what it sees fit as
long as the Cruzans are left alone as an 
independent sovereign state.
So if Florida were to recognize Cruzan 
independence, then there would
still be a Florida as far as the Cruzans and the 
SR are concerned.
Florida need not fear losing its national 
sovereignty.

-----<snip>-----
> > Blackmail is what it sounds like.
>
> Once again, this is probably a cultural
> misunderstanding. Floridian jurisprudence would
> understand "Blackmail" as a threat in order to
> gain support for something; this is simply a
> statement of fact.

That's a corrupted definition. Blackmail is the 
same as "to coerce
into a particular action". Florida is threatening 
military action if
the Cruzans vote to be independent, but offering 
peace if Cruzans vote
to become part of Florida. Hence, they're 
threating military action in
order to coerce the Cruzans into voting against 
independence.

> > This is the core of the problem. The
> > SR and the Cruzados want Florida to respect a
> > referendum over Cruzan
> > sovereignty. "Respect" means that should the
> > Cruzans decide in favor
> > of full independence, then Florida cannot use
> > its military forces upon the islands.
>
> I think issues of "Cruzan sovereignty" and SR
> activities in the Cruzans would need to be 
worked
> on.

See below.

> There might be some wiggle room _if_ the 
Cruzans
> opted for independence but accepted Floridian
> defence. And if the SR were allowed to post
> military units to the islands, Florida would at
> least require a base and an observer programme. 
I
> mean, they would have Floridian defence anyway:
> they're surrounded by Floridian waters after 
all!

More specifically, Cruzan waters is surrounded by 
Floridian waters.

Anyways, that's certainly doable! In fact, that's 
an excellent option!

This would allow for the recognition of Cruzan 
independence by Florida
(should the results of the referendum be in that 
favor), to the
satisfaction of both the Cruzans and the SR.

Given the geographical facts and if Cruzan 
independence were
recognized, then Florida would be most welcome to 
help defend the
Cruzans together with the SR. In fact, this is 
what I originally
thought was meant by condominium status. Because, 
since the SR
recognizes the Cruzan Islands as an independent 
state in free
association with the SR, then for Florida to 
offer condominium status
would mean joint defence and guarantorship with 
the SR of Cruzan
independence. So basically, I thought 
"condominium" status meant that
the Cruzan Islands would be in free association 
with both the SR and
the Florida. Strictly speaking, this isn't really 
a condominium in the
traditional sense. It's more of a joint 
guarantorship of Cruzan
independence. This would be completely acceptable 
to the SR, but the
Cruzans themselves would have to put it through a 
referendum because
the Cruzan Constitution requires all issues 
concerning a change in
sovereignty to be put through a referendum. But 
at least this would be
much more acceptable to Cruzans than becoming a 
Floridian territory or
province.

If accepted, then further details of this joint 
association needs to
be worked out. For instance, the currency. 
Florida already expressed
the intention to replace the local currency with 
Floridian currency.
Chances are quite good that the Cruzans will vote 
in favor in the
change in currency should it be put through a 
referendum (as required
in the constitution). It's simply more practical.

Another issue that need to be addressed for joint 
association is the
question of who would be the Cruzan head of 
state. As it is now, the
Cruzan constitution recognizes the Queen in 
Copenhagen as head of
state. Should Florida want this changed, then 
this too should be put
through a referendum since it would also be a 
change-in-sovereignty
issue. Chances are not good that this will 
change.

> > -----<snip>-----
> > > But mind you, if they accept the Plan, the
> > Cruzan
> > > Iss. will be the _most_ independent 
Province
> > > there is. Even the original Provinces don't
> > > enjoy what the Cruzans are being offered!
> >
> > How so?
>
> Well, no other citizens are able to obtain dual
> citizenship; migration is somewhat restricted
> (the Cruzans, as a condo with the SR, would 
allow
> unrestricted movement between the two lands);
> businesses must conform to the usual strictures
> placed on international trade; etc.

Cruzan independence would mean that the Cruzans 
would have their own
citizenship - their own passport. But, if it were 
in free association
with both the SR and Florida, then Cruzan 
citizenship should entitle
Cruzans to freely enter and exit Florida and all 
SR countries.

-----<snip>-----
> > and I'm sure there are
> > quite a few Cruzans who, knowing they have 
the
> > SR as their guaranteur,
> > are agitating war just to spite the 
Floridians
> > - y'know teach them a lesson.
>
> Quite! But, a lesson at what price?

I know what you mean. It's an 
emotional/heat-of-the-moment kind of
phase, I'm sure. After heads are cooled off, I'm 
sure that Cruzans and
Scandinavians will be more moderate in their 
expressions. Not everyone
are diplomats, and certainly not many of the 
average borger in the
street.

> > > Any idea on when R-Day will take place?
> >
> > How's the end of the month sound? That should
> > be sufficient time for campaigning.
>
> Sounds good. It will give the Cruzados a month 
to
> see how well the Bahamians like their new 
status.
> Look out for the Convocación de la República
> tomorrow at noon on Telenovial: the newly 
elected
> Governors of Bahamas and Jamaica receive their
> chains of office and the new Senators take 
their
> seats in the Congress as well.

Mind you, the Cruzan Constitution requires a 75% 
majority from an at
least 50% voter turnout for any changes in 
sovereignty to take effect.

> The NAL, at least, seems mollified by the Plan.

Good for them, and good for Florida.

...and if Florida were to recognize Cruzan 
independence, then the SR
would be mollified as well. Florida would only 
have to worry about
England and Kemr, and a potential Grand Coalition 
_without_ the SR
involved! In fact, the SR would be in place to 
defend the area within
Cruzan territorial waters and airspace - no 
matter how small it may be
;).

> As for England and Kemr - they're clearly still
> up for the Grand Coalition with the SR, should
> things go awry. And even if they don't, they 
may
> well decide to go in anyway and try to wrest
> their colonies back.

The SR sees the idea of the Grand Coalition is a 
bit short sighted,
I'm afraid. I mean, what's to be done afterwards? 
The Floridians have,
afterall, a national psyche dictated by Destino 
Castellano. So the
Grand Coalition would only be an absolutely last 
resort, as far as the
SR is concerned.

> > The Cruzan PM is already in Miami together 
with
> > the SR Foreign
> > Minister. They were part of the delegation 
sent
> > to Miami to disguss the Floridian Plan.
>
> Excellent! Hopefully, they can explain in 
simple
> terms their understanding of things! [I 
wouldn't
> mind being privy to _that_ meeting...]

Well, I hope I have explained things a bit 
clearer in this post. I'm
not a political scientist, I'm afraid.

-kristian


Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 


--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > ...and the SR is not interested either in
> > > waging a war that is near
> > > impossible to win in the long run if
> Florida
> > > sticks to her notions of
> > > nationhood and Destino Castellano.
> >
> > It's kind of built into the national psyche.
> 
> ...making it all the more difficult to pursuade
> them of anything contrary to their doctrine.

Aye. You sort of have to push the right button.
If a way can be found to at least make Florida
think that it has a stake in the Cruzans, then
they'd undoubtedly change their tune.

> -----<snip>-----
> > > > There is one Republic! And one Government
> > > > encompassed it!
> > >
> > > That's understood. But can't it be such
> that
> > > the annexed territories
> > > are in free association with the Republic
> > > should they decide it to be so in a
> referendum?
> >
> > I think there must be a cultural
> misunderstanding
> > on this point.
> 
> I'm thinking the same thing...
> 
> > To be quite blunt, there is
> > nothing in the Floridian / Spanish experience
> > that has prepared them for this impasse. They
> > don't understand what you (the Cruzados)
> really
> > mean by this.
> 
> Really? No "Estado Associado Libre" (like
> Puerto Rico and Cuba *here*)?

Nope. Not yet anyway. It's always been assumed
that if a territory didn't willingly join up or
join by being bought out, then it would have to
be subjugated by force.

Think early USA and manifest destiny. Though
Florida has been a little less underhanded than
the USA, on the whole. While the US was fond of
making and then breaking treaties, Florida has
always made it clear that you will be annexed
without question.

But all things change and come to an end: the
recent conception of the Plan marked the formal
end to Florida's aggressive expansionism phase,
in the mind of the Government. It never occurred
to them that a Territory would refuse the Plan,
which puts Florida in an interesting position. As
a matter of self image and honour, Florida has to
accomplish its Plan without further war. On the
other hand, if the Cruzans carry through with
their threatened independence, then Florida would
lose face. Thus, it reacts by issuing threats of
its own (which the SR sees as blackmail); but
which are _most likely_ no more than bluster. The
situation is _not_ helpped by third party
meddlers (Dalmatia) who may unwittingly be
hampering the delicate process.

> > Nor do they really understand what
> > condominiums are all about, I think. It seems
> to
> > me that they went a little far in their offer
> - I
> > mean, for all pracitcal purposes, a post-Plan
> > Bahamian will be a NAL citizen in everything
> but
> > name. That's quite a bit more than most
> > condominium citizens experience. Likewise, a
> > post-Plan Cruzado could choose to be a
> Floridian
> > _only_ in name. Every other aspect of life
> could
> > remain the same.
> >
> > _Hopefully_ the Cruzan PM will explain this
> to
> > Bush so that the best solution can be
> achieved. I
> > think that Florida truly fears losing its own
> > national sovereignty - but it may well be
> that
> > the Cruzan position is much more innocuous
> than
> > is commonly believed.
> 
> Well, it might depend on the eyes that see. But
> it's completely
> innocent as far as the Cruzans and the SR are
> concerned. All that is
> desired is Cruzan independence and for Florida
> to recognize this. All
> other territorial claims in the region are not
> the concern of the
> Cruzans nor the SR. Florida can do with the
> region what it sees fit as
> long as the Cruzans are left alone as an
> independent sovereign state.
> So if Florida were to recognize Cruzan
> independence, then there would
> still be a Florida as far as the Cruzans and
> the SR are concerned.
> Florida need not fear losing its national
> sovereignty.

Well, that's a relief.

> -----<snip>-----
> > There might be some wiggle room _if_ the
> Cruzans
> > opted for independence but accepted Floridian
> > defence. And if the SR were allowed to post
> > military units to the islands, Florida would
> at
> > least require a base and an observer
> programme. I
> > mean, they would have Floridian defence
> anyway:
> > they're surrounded by Floridian waters after
> all!
> 
> More specifically, Cruzan waters is surrounded
> by Floridian waters.
> 
> Anyways, that's certainly doable! In fact,
> that's an excellent option!

Now, they will have to convince Bush that it was
really his idea... Rivera would be a pushover.

> This would allow for the recognition of Cruzan
> independence by Florida
> (should the results of the referendum be in
> that favor), to the
> satisfaction of both the Cruzans and the SR.
> 
> Given the geographical facts and if Cruzan
> independence were
> recognized, then Florida would be most welcome
> to help defend the
> Cruzans together with the SR. In fact, this is
> what I originally
> thought was meant by condominium status.

Ah, well! Different expectations, it would seem,
can easily lead to near disaster!

> Because, since the SR
> recognizes the Cruzan Islands as an independent
> state in free
> association with the SR, then for Florida to
> offer condominium status
> would mean joint defence and guarantorship with
> the SR of Cruzan
> independence. So basically, I thought
> "condominium" status meant that
> the Cruzan Islands would be in free association
> with both the SR and
> the Florida. Strictly speaking, this isn't
> really a condominium in the
> traditional sense. It's more of a joint
> guarantorship of Cruzan
> independence. This would be completely
> acceptable to the SR, but the
> Cruzans themselves would have to put it through
> a referendum because
> the Cruzan Constitution requires all issues
> concerning a change in
> sovereignty to be put through a referendum. But
> at least this would be
> much more acceptable to Cruzans than becoming a
> Floridian territory or
> province.

Yeah, well, recognise and coddle the Floridian
sense of machismo a little, and you could
probably get just about anything!

> If accepted, then further details of this joint
> association needs to
> be worked out. For instance, the currency.
> Florida already expressed
> the intention to replace the local currency
> with Floridian currency.
> Chances are quite good that the Cruzans will
> vote in favor in the
> change in currency should it be put through a
> referendum (as required
> in the constitution). It's simply more
> practical.
> 
> Another issue that need to be addressed for
> joint association is the
> question of who would be the Cruzan head of
> state. 

You all have a PM, no?

> As it is now, the
> Cruzan constitution recognizes the Queen in
> Copenhagen as head of state. 

Oh, I see what you mean. Once again, a cultural
difference.

> Should Florida want this changed, then
> this too should be put
> through a referendum since it would also be a
> change-in-sovereignty
> issue. Chances are not good that this will
> change.

Can they have two? Yes - they could easily have
two: how about a Head of State & Head of
Government sort of thing?

> > > -----<snip>-----
> > > > But mind you, if they accept the Plan,
> the
> > > Cruzan
> > > > Iss. will be the _most_ independent
> Province
> > > > there is. Even the original Provinces
> don't
> > > > enjoy what the Cruzans are being offered!
> > >
> > > How so?
> >
> > Well, no other citizens are able to obtain
> dual
> > citizenship; migration is somewhat restricted
> > (the Cruzans, as a condo with the SR, would
> allow
> > unrestricted movement between the two lands);
> > businesses must conform to the usual
> strictures
> > placed on international trade; etc.
> 
> Cruzan independence would mean that the Cruzans
> would have their own
> citizenship - their own passport. 

Well, that as well: Cubans don't have Cuban
passports. Everyone's passport says "República de
la Tierra Florida y las Antilles".

And in two hours time, a whole bunch of people
will also have separate passports that say "The
North American League" on.

> But, if it were in free association
> with both the SR and Florida, then Cruzan
> citizenship should entitle
> Cruzans to freely enter and exit Florida and
> all SR countries.

Yes.

> -----<snip>-----
> > The NAL, at least, seems mollified by the
> > Plan.
> 
> Good for them, and good for Florida.
> 
> ...and if Florida were to recognize Cruzan
> independence, then the SR would be mollified as
> well. 

Well, the root problem, really, is the military
one. So long as the SR is willing to entertain a
conjoined defense scheme, then I think Florida
would be much more satisfied with this strange
notion of Cruzan independence.

> Florida would only have to worry about
> England and Kemr, 

Pfau! "Load of Miss Nancies", as the Anglos say!

> and a potential Grand
> Coalition _without_ the SR
> involved! 

The Coalition seems to be deflating from "Grand"
to "Not all that Bad" to "Totally Mediocre"!

> In fact, the SR would be in place to
> defend the area within
> Cruzan territorial waters and airspace - no
> matter how small it may be ;).

A strange position, given the traditional
friendship between the SR and the FK countries.

> > As for England and Kemr - they're clearly
> still
> > up for the Grand Coalition with the SR,
> should
> > things go awry. And even if they don't, they
> may
> > well decide to go in anyway and try to wrest
> > their colonies back.
> 
> The SR sees the idea of the Grand Coalition is
> a bit short sighted, I'm afraid. 

I suspect it's the cooler heads of the SR legates
that have prevented war for this long. Anyway,
the Kemrese can be a pretty hot headed lot (they
_are_ Latins after all!).

> I mean, what's to be done
> afterwards? The Floridians have,
> afterall, a national psyche dictated by Destino
> Castellano. So the
> Grand Coalition would only be an absolutely
> last resort, as far as the SR is concerned.

On the other hand, the FK has that jolly notion
of Empire at the back of its collective head.
Neither Kemr nor England can seem to get past the
idea that they've lost even the smallest rock in
the sea.

And their lack of compromise has prompted Florida
to thumb its nose as the idea of offering a
condominium. While on the other hand, Scotland's
allowance of compromise has reduced its colonies
to condominium territories - but it has gained a
strong trading partner and reduced tarriffs for
its goods and a wider range of imports. The NAL
(and hopefully the SR) will also enjoy the same.

Padraic.


Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:19:38 -0500 
Subject: [conculture] IB: Western Caribbean 
       
 


Okay. As *here*, the Dutch, the English and the 
French (the Cambrians too)
oposed the papal bule that divided all new 
non-Christian lands between
Portugal and Castile-Leon. The Caribbean was one 
of the scenarios of a
series of colonial wars.

One day (I do not remember the year), the English 
launched an offensive to
take one of the big Antiles. Their main goal was 
Castellana (Santo Domingo),
but at the last time they changed their plans 
(too much resistance) and
attacked Jamaica instead and took posetion. 
Finally the French took
Castellana and founded the colony of Haiti in the 
western half.

Jamaica was a good base for privateers and 
freebosters against Castilian and
French posetions, and both English regulars, 
privateers and freebosters,
settled in the surrounding islands and the 
Central American shores, where
the lumber industry proved lucrative. Many freed 
and scaped slaves from
Jamaica also settled in neighboring islands and 
in the Central American
shore. With time, the colony in *Belize was 
formalized.

Bloofield, founded by a Dutch privateer near the 
San Juan mouth, and San
Andres, founded by Scotish migrants (without 
support from the Scotish
government), become the center of several fights 
between the English and the
Castilians, as the settlers there were a constant 
threat to the interior of
Nicaragua and the gold from Peru. By late 18th 
century, England resigned all
her rights to the Mosquito Coast and San Andres, 
in exchange to Trinidad and
Belize (The English also took Essequibo).

As several Castilian colonies broke free during 
the French & Aragonese
occupation of Castile-Leon in the early 19th 
century (and even before that),
the English kept supporting the English and 
Creole speaking populations in
Castilian Territory. The Castilian King in Santa 
Fe, New Granada, had many
more important problems to worry about than a few 
tiny islands and some
jungle covered shores barely inhabited by Indians 
and Creoles.

After Mejico, Tejas, Venezola, Peru and Chile 
were definitively lost, and
the French and Aragonese expelled from Castile 
propper, and the
stabilization of Guatemala, New Granada, Cuba and 
Porto Rico. The King could
concentrate on the Western Caribbean, and on 
Santo Domingo (invaded by
Haiti)... a few more colonial wars and skimrishes 
followed between
Castile-Leon and England.

Eventually Jamaica seceded from England joining 
the Solemn League and
Convenant, but England kept the Cayman Islands 
and Belize almos undisputed,
while the Mosquito Coast, San Andres and adjacent 
cays were still fought
with the Castilians.

As Central America, Cuba, Porto Rico, Santo 
Domingo and New Granada were
becoming less "colonies" and more integral part 
of the Castilian Kingdom;
and with the projects to build a canal in 
Nicaragua, a few agreements were
made between England and CL. The San Juan 
territory would be Castilian
without any dubt, as well as any shore at the 
Southeast of the San Juan
mouth.

(England was aware that they would not control 
completely the Nicaragua
canal, and if they would oppose too much, CL 
would build the canal in
Panama, so it would be better to settle some 
understanding with CL.)

In 1932, a final agreement was signed, between 
England and Castile-Leon. The
Caribbean Shore north of paralel 13°, and East of 
meridian 85° west from
Greenwich, would be an English Colony (up to 100 
miles inside, exact
boundary was specified). Everything south of that 
paralel would be
Castilian. Adjacent cays, west from 82° W from 
Greenwish, would be English.
San Andres and Old Providence would be Castilian. 
Similar arrangements were
done for Belize.

In 1933, the Governorship of San Andrés and 
Mosquitía was created,
compromising Bloofields, San Andres, Providencia 
and related cays. This
governorship was stablished with strong authonomy 
into the Central American
Presidency (later Central American Community). 
San Andrés was chosen as
Capital.

In 1988, Florida-Caribbea landed an invation on 
San Andres. San Andrés was
taken back by English-Castilian combined forces 
in 1989 but felt again in
1992 to the Floridans. Neither Castile-Leon nor 
England have recognized any
right of F-C over San Andres, but Castile-Leon 
has a cease-fire agreement
with F-C. Given that England is still fighting 
the Floridians, many have
proposed that if England frees San Andres, they 
should not handled it back
to C-L.

Note that if the League of Nations finally 
decides to take action against
Florida-Caribbea, Castile-Leon will break the 
cease-fire. (And Castile-Leon
is currently lobbying to get the resolution 
against FC passed in the LoN)

-- Carlos Th

(NOTE: We now know "Belize" as "Wallace Cay"; the Castilian form of the name is "Belice".)

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:43:22 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two wars down, one to go? + How close are we, really? 
       
 


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 4. juli 2003 16:09
Emne: Re: [conculture] Dalmatian Debacle + Two 
wars down, one to go? +
How close are we, really?


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
-----<snip>-----
> > ...making it all the more difficult to 
pursuade
> > them of anything contrary to their doctrine.
>
> Aye. You sort of have to push the right button.
> If a way can be found to at least make Florida
> think that it has a stake in the Cruzans, then
> they'd undoubtedly change their tune.

...their stake: the right to defend a fellow 
Antilleano - a Cruzado.
:)

-----<snip>-----
> > Really? No "Estado Associado Libre" (like
> > Puerto Rico and Cuba *here*)?
>
> Nope. Not yet anyway. It's always been assumed
> that if a territory didn't willingly join up or
> join by being bought out, then it would have to
> be subjugated by force.

I see.

> Think early USA and manifest destiny. Though
> Florida has been a little less underhanded than
> the USA, on the whole. While the US was fond of
> making and then breaking treaties, Florida has
> always made it clear that you will be annexed
> without question.

I see.

All in all... very pre-Napoleonic Spanish in its 
thinking.

> But all things change and come to an end: the
> recent conception of the Plan marked the formal
> end to Florida's aggressive expansionism phase,
> in the mind of the Government. It never 
occurred
> to them that a Territory would refuse the Plan,
> which puts Florida in an interesting position. 
As
> a matter of self image and honour, Florida has 
to
> accomplish its Plan without further war. On the
> other hand, if the Cruzans carry through with
> their threatened independence, then Florida 
would
> lose face. Thus, it reacts by issuing threats 
of
> its own (which the SR sees as blackmail); but
> which are _most likely_ no more than bluster. 
The
> situation is _not_ helpped by third party
> meddlers (Dalmatia) who may unwittingly be
> hampering the delicate process.

To each his own.

-----<snip>-----
> > Anyways, that's certainly doable! In fact,
> > that's an excellent option!
>
> Now, they will have to convince Bush that it 
was
> really his idea... Rivera would be a pushover.

I think the SR and Cruzan delegation will first 
convince Rivera. A
pushover, for sure. He is the one who, afterall, 
is the strongest
supporter of Cruzado rights. This will be done, 
of course, in a
separate meeting where Bush is not present. Then, 
with the help of
Rivera, the delegation will try to convince Bush 
that it was really
his idea. I don't know what input Rivera will 
have here, but I think
the delegation will bring up the fact that Bush 
himself was the
mastermind behind the Plan, and it was expressed 
quite clearly in the
Plan that the Cruzan islands would have 
"condominium status" with the
SR. And (like I have written below), since the SR 
recognizes the
Cruzan Islands as an independent state in free 
association with the
SR, then for Bush to offer "condominium status" 
would mean joint
defence and guarantorship with the SR of Cruzan 
independence.


-----<snip>-----
> > Another issue that need to be addressed for
> > joint association is the
> > question of who would be the Cruzan head of
> > state.
>
> You all have a PM, no?

All SR states have a their own PM.

> > As it is now, the
> > Cruzan constitution recognizes the Queen in
> > Copenhagen as head of state.
>
> Oh, I see what you mean. Once again, a cultural
> difference.

Yes.

> > Should Florida want this changed, then
> > this too should be put
> > through a referendum since it would also be a
> > change-in-sovereignty
> > issue. Chances are not good that this will
> > change.
>
> Can they have two? Yes - they could easily have
> two: how about a Head of State & Head of
> Government sort of thing?

While each SR state has its own PM (who is the 
local Head of
Government), they all share the same Head of 
State - the Queen. On a
higher level, the Cruzans also recognize the 
Chancellor of the SR as
the Head of the Multinational SR Government, to 
which the the Cruzan
Islands is freely associated with. So if joint 
guarantorship is
accepted by Florida, I don't see why the Cruzans 
should not also
recognize el Presidente as the Head of the 
Multinational Government of
el Presidencia de la Tierra Florida y las 
Antilles, to which the
Cruzans would then also be freely associated 
with.

Over the weekend, I did some research about 
constitutions and found
out how exactly the SR government is structured. 
The SR government is
only responsible for the "Fællesanlæggene" (the 
Common Affairs). This
includes Commonwealth's finance, defense, foreign 
affairs, church
affairs, and civil liberties.

The legislative side is controlled by the 
"Rigsråd" (the "Council of
the Realm"). Formally, it meets every other year, 
but actually has
"extraordinary" meetings quite often. Normally, 
this is done in
Gjøteborg, but it can meet anywhere if the need 
arises. It can only
pass laws when at least two-thirds of the members 
are present.

The Rigsråd is composed of a number of members 
from each associated
state chosen by the Queen, a number of members 
from each associated
state chosen by their respective parliaments, and 
a number of members
from each associated state elected directly by 
the people of their
respective states. The affiliated states of New 
Sweden and New Iceland
have observers in the Rigsråd with no voting 
rights. From among the
members of the Rigsråd, a President and two 
Vice-Presidents are
elected, who directs the meetings according to 
established etiquette.

On the Executive side, there is the 
"Gehejmekonseil" (the "Privy
Council"). This is composed of the Queen, the 
Chancellor, his
ministers, and any PMs from associated states who 
happens to be
present. If the Queen is not present, then it is 
called the "Kancelli"
(the "Chancellery"). The Chancellor is elected by 
the majority in the
Rigsråd. The Chancellor chooses his ministers. 
Each minister heads a
College controlling the Common Affairs of the 
Commonwealth. There's a
College of the Exchequer (in charge of finance), 
a College of the
Admiralty (in charge of naval defense), a College 
of State (in charge
of foreign affairs), a College of the Church (for 
church affairs), and
a College of Rights (for civil liberties).

Each associated state has its own parliamentary 
system of government
with its own system of ministries/colleges.

-----<snip>-----
> > Cruzan independence would mean that the 
Cruzans
> > would have their own
> > citizenship - their own passport.
>
> Well, that as well: Cubans don't have Cuban
> passports. Everyone's passport says "República 
de
> la Tierra Florida y las Antilles".
>
> And in two hours time, a whole bunch of people
> will also have separate passports that say "The
> North American League" on.

Oh OK... I get it.

-----<snip>-----
> > ...and if Florida were to recognize Cruzan
> > independence, then the SR would be mollified 
as
> > well.
>
> Well, the root problem, really, is the military
> one. So long as the SR is willing to entertain 
a
> conjoined defense scheme, then I think Florida
> would be much more satisfied with this strange
> notion of Cruzan independence.

This may be a first in IB. But *here*, the 
closest thing I can think
of is Iceland where the US, the UK, Canada, 
Denmark, Norway, and
Holland take part in the Icelandic Defence Force.

Of course, I have never heard of a scheme where a 
country would be
freely associated with more than one country. But 
then IB is a weird
place.

-----<snip>-----
> > In fact, the SR would be in place to
> > defend the area within
> > Cruzan territorial waters and airspace - no
> > matter how small it may be ;).
>
> A strange position, given the traditional
> friendship between the SR and the FK countries.

Not really. It's not any weird than Scotland 
accepting condominium
status with Florida. Its implied that, should the 
FK countries decide
to pursue their Grand Coalition, all they have to 
do is maneuver
around the Cruzan Islands and the SR will not 
react. There might even
be the grotesque situation where the Grand 
Coalition will sail
together with SR ships, and just before entering 
Floridian waters, the
SR ships will part from the Coalition fleet 
wishing them good luck
before sailing on to the Cruzan Islands to 
perform their defensive
duties there. Of course, all this is just 
speculative, and I'm not
sure if Florida
understood this implication, but it certainly 
won't be spelled out to
them by the Scandinavian nor Cruzan delegates. 
Nor will the
aformentioned grotesque situation be openly 
admitted should it ever
occur.

-----<snip>-----
> > The SR sees the idea of the Grand Coalition 
is
> > a bit short sighted, I'm afraid.
>
> I suspect it's the cooler heads of the SR 
legates
> that have prevented war for this long. Anyway,
> the Kemrese can be a pretty hot headed lot 
(they
> _are_ Latins after all!).

Small neutral powers are hard pressed to find 
ways to please potential
enemies and not to provoke war. So diplomacy is 
actually a big part of
the overall military and tactical doctrine of 
SR's "Lynkrig". Peace
should always be sought after before military 
conflict without
sacrificing the sovereignty of SR nations.

> > I mean, what's to be done
> > afterwards? The Floridians have,
> > afterall, a national psyche dictated by 
Destino
> > Castellano. So the
> > Grand Coalition would only be an absolutely
> > last resort, as far as the SR is concerned.
>
> On the other hand, the FK has that jolly notion
> of Empire at the back of its collective head.
> Neither Kemr nor England can seem to get past 
the
> idea that they've lost even the smallest rock 
in
> the sea.

To some extent, the mainland Scandinavians have 
the same empirialistic
tendencies. But because the the Scandinavian 
"Empire" is so much
smaller than the FK's rather intimidating  Empire 
(which historically
includes the NAL and Australasia), then there is 
also a bit of a
minority complex expressed through a collective 
psyche called "Jante's
Law". Basically, "Jante's Law" states that one 
shall not be boastful.
So instead, Scandinavian's celebrate the small as 
being more
desireable than the big.

Anyways, I guess this explains partly why the SR 
will not give up on
the Cruzan Islands, and partly why the SR would 
rather negotiate
rather than intimidate.

> And their lack of compromise has prompted 
Florida
> to thumb its nose as the idea of offering a
> condominium. While on the other hand, 
Scotland's
> allowance of compromise has reduced its 
colonies
> to condominium territories - but it has gained 
a
> strong trading partner and reduced tarriffs for
> its goods and a wider range of imports. The NAL
> (and hopefully the SR) will also enjoy the 
same.

Hopefully.

> > Well, I hope I have explained things a bit
> > clearer in this post. I'm
> > not a political scientist, I'm afraid.
>
> Yeah. Neither am I, mind! Perhaps they're not 
so
> far away, after all!

Perhaps.

BTW, what will happen to Rivera and his 
administration should the
Cruzans vote for independence? Will the exiled 
government immediately
take over? Or should the term of Rivera and his 
government's office be
allowed to continue until it expires?

Actually, I'm a bit confused now as to what 
exactly the referendum is
about. Is it still over Cruzan independence? Or 
has it now become over
free association with Florida? If the former is 
the case, and Florida
still wants the Cruzan Islands to be freely 
associated with Florida,
then another referendum over free association 
needs to be conducted.
If the latter, then that means that Florida 
already recognizes the
Cruzan Islands as independent and is only asking 
the Cruzans to
consider free association with Florida for the 
sake of peace.

-kristian-
 

Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:32:56 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 articles 
       
 


--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> POLLS SAY: IT'S CLOSE IN THE CARIBBEAN

Hopefully, the Referendum Education Programme can
help defuse some of the misinformation presented
in the Cruzado press! ;)

> Those that are against the plan are concerned
> about the long term and
> pragmatic effects of voting yes. They say that
> while Alonso Rivera,
> the current Floridian governor of the Cruzan
> islands, is a sympathetic
> governor, no one can know for sure who will
> replace Alonso when he
> retires, and whether his replacement will be
> just as sympathetic. Past
> governors have been quite brutal.

He is nearing retirement, regardless of the
outcome of the Referendum. There is no way to
predict who of the likely contenders will get the
prize, though. The current Governor of Martinique
would like to add the tourism and plantation
income potential of the Islands to her own
portfolio. She is _not_ native friendly. On the
other hand, the de Borbon family (relatives of
European royalty) are wealthy and are looking for
an island or two to buy up. They could easily buy
up the Governorship of the Cruzans outright and
perhaps rent out some of the lesser islands to
some other competitor.

> Those that are undecided are split between the
> desire for peace on the
> one hand and fears of who will eventually
> replace Alonso Rivera on the
> other. Most of the undecided don't intend to
> vote. 

That could be disasterous for the Cruzans!
Personally, I don't care which way they vote -
but they _need_ to do so!

It would be so tragic if some rapacious governor
came to power in Cruzans or war broke out over
the place just because no one turned out to vote.

If there's gonna be a war, at least it should be
known before hand that the Cruzados willed to
take the chance on it!

> *****
> READER'S FORUM

Interesting opinions!

> ---
> On one hand, the Floridians did take our
> freedom away from us in 1946.
> But we have since gained a little more with
> Alonso Rivera as governor.
> I'll be the first to admit that it's not near
> as much freedom as we
> had before 1946, but it's what we have. I say,
> we should deal with it and vote "yes".

Somewhat misinformed, but I think one of the more
sensible Cruzados!

> ---
> 
> Before 1946, when Florida invaded the Cruzan
> Islands, the islands was
> an independent state. It did no have a governor
> as it has now. It had
> a prime minister chosen by the Cruzans
> themselves. But for more than
> sixty years now, the islands have been reduced
> to a Floridian
> territory with a Floridian governor. Their
> first Floridian governor
> was definitely a tyrant. On the other hand, the
> current one, Alonso
> Rivera, is no doubt a sypathetic man. Who knows
> who will replace him
> when he retires? The fact is, Miami does the
> choosing of governors not
> the Cruzan people. I say vote "no" to the plan
> and await help from the Grand Coalition.

Admirable sentiment, but ultimately detrimental!
A yes vote to the Plan will (ultimately)
eliminate the appointed governorship from the
Cruzans - citizens will once again elect their
own Governor/Prime Minister and government.

> ---
> 
> It's a scandal that the Giøteborg government
> has even allowed the
> referendum to take place. What use is there of
> having a rigsfælleskab
> if we are not willing to defend it? It's about
> time the Grand
> Coalition is formed to put an end to Florida's
> illusions of grandeur.

Clearly, not an inhabitant of the Cruzans!! It's
all well and good for one to shout loudly about
defending the commonwealth from the safety of
Norway! The average Cruzado might be a little
less sure of the commonwealth in this resepct.

> *****
> 
> WEEKEND TOUR OF THE CRUZAN ISLANDS BY THE CROWN
> PRINCE
> 
> His Royal Highness, Crown Prince Frederik, has
> landed in Charlotte
> Amalie today and will begin his three day tour
> of the Cruzan Islands.

Governor Rivera and V-P Higgins-Calvo welcommed
him and will be meeting with him this evening.

> Cheers greeted him in the Cruzan capital as the
> crowd began to sing
> "Kong Christian stod ved Højen Mast" [the Royal
> Anthem, ed.]. He met
> with Alonso Rivera at the Groenhus [the Cruzan
> Parliament building,
> ed.]. His Highness will be island hopping
> aboard a Hamsa
> flying-fuselage. His girlfriend, Tasmanian born
> Mary Donaldson, will
> not be accompanying him on the tour. She will
> be staying in Oldenburg.

Preggo? ;)

=====

LA VOZ DE LA NACION - LA HABANA, FLORIDA
27-07-2003

Vice President Simon Eugenio Higgins-Calvo and
Governor Alonso Rivera of the Cruzados will meet
with Crown Prince Frederik of the Scandinavian
Realm during the princes weekend trip to the
Islands. Key topics of their meeting will
undoubdedly be the upcomming Referendum, set for
30 July, 2003, and the effects that it will have
on the region. Higgins-Calvo is expected to
stress the necessity of Floridian integrity in
the region, and that the Cruzados can help
maintain this requirement and retain their
independent status by ticking "YES" in their
ballots. Rivera is expected to tout the economic
and redevelopment advantages that the Islands can
expect with Condominium status.

The Referendum Education Programme has gone into
flank speed this weekend - the last before the
vote is scheduled. The Programme has included
media interviews with Cruzan and Floridian
officils; detailed discussions and publication of
the Plan in all Cruzan newspapers; as well as
targeted speeches, handbill distributions and
distribution of various political articles
(buttons, pins, banners, campaign "money" and
informative booklets. It is hoped that the rumors
so common to the Scandinavian and Cruzado press
can thus be allayed.

*****

NOTE: There are some rumours that Rivera will
also try to impress upon HH his own desire to see
the Cruzans (his adopted home, to be sure)
maintain what they have even though they might
risk gaining more through war with Florida. Not
to mention risking the lives of many Floridians
and Scandinavians; as well as the infrastructure
of Florida itself!

He is nearing retirement, and is not looking
forward to the scramble for the Governorship once
he steps down. He'd really like nothing more than
to quietly retire in his Charlotte Amalia
townhouse in a (quite reasonably) free and
undamaged Cruzan Islands.

While it's totally unofficial and unknown even to
Higgins-Calvo, Rivera is probably planning to
invite the Prince to _privately_ review some of
the Floridian defenses in the Islands. It's a
dangerous game, to be sure, if HH blabs about the
sort of things that _might_ be awaiting the SR's
forces when they try to land in the Islands. On
the other hand, Rivera's motives are really not
as impure as they might seem: he wants to impress
on someone he sees as a representative of the SR
government that Florida is serious about the
Cruzans whichever way the Cruzados vote.

Mind you, none of that is known generally!
Florida's rhetoric has traditionally been of the
"resistance is futile" line; but the Plan is
clearly opposite. The military are becomming much
more agitated over the issue. Of course, the high
command's position is officially "We don't care
which way the Cruzados vote - we will defend all
Antilleanos whether we have to reduce them to
rubble and rebuild them; or whether they sign on
willingly" sort of thing. Certainly refelctive of
the underlying though not well articulated
position of the President. He simply wants to
preserve and impose the Idea and template of
Floridian nationalism and militarism on the
Caribbean. [Similar to how earlier US presidents
wanted to impose US government on our part of the
continent.]

The details of whether the Cruzans do this via
the Plan and the Condominium - or through a war
of independence - are not that relevant to
Florida. This has probably led some Cruzans to
misinterpret what Florida means by its rhetoric.

Certainly the President sees that it's easier to
go the former route, which is why he hasn't said
anything on the topic for quite a while now. I
guess his staff feel when he opens his mouth on
this topic he tends to put his foot in it
directly. In stead, he's been touring Jamaica,
Bahamas and the NAL; promoting the Condominium
and opening up new trade negotiations. He is
expected to visit Scotland and England next week
and Kemr thereafter. The former to cement the
Condominium with Scotland; the latter to try and
smoothe over some ruffled feathers. That tour
will, naturally, put him in good position to pop
on over to Scandinavia, should the need arise
post referendum...

Padraic.


Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:10:42 +0200 
Subject: [conculture] IB: Royal Anthem (was: Rigets Tidende - 3 articles) 
       
 


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "John Cowan" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 25. juli 2003 19:29
Emne: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 
articles


> Kristian Jensen scripsit:
>
> > Cheers greeted him in the Cruzan capital as 
the crowd began to
sing
> > "Kong Christian stod ved H?jen Mast" [the 
Royal Anthem, ed.].
>
> You know, I'm skeptical about this.  The song 
was written in 1779,
and
> is about King Christian trashing the Swedish 
enemy.  40 years later,
> I think the least the Dano-Norwegian monarchs 
can do, considering
they've
> just been invited to the Swedish throne, is to 
dump the song.  The
current
> Danish national anthem wasn't written until 
1819, so they'll need to
> choose something else.  Any ideas?

I did consider this. I changed the lyrics a bit 
so that it is not
about Denmark-Norway trashing the Swedes, but 
about the entire realm
braving evil and a turbulent history. Naval 
battles is used as a
metaphor of this, and it also reflects the Realm 
as a naval power. The
first verse, is about King Christian trashing 
Satan and his heathens.
The next three verses is about Niels Juel, 
Tordenskjold, and the realm
as a whole braving the turbulent sea - a metaphor 
for a turbulent
history.

[NOTE: Niels Juel and Tordenskjold were naval 
heroes who trashed the
Swedes *here*. But *there*, their careers 
progressed in the
privateering wars of the East and West Indies. 
Tordenskjold *here*
actually went to Tranquebar and Danish Guinea 
where he rose in the
ranks. I can easily picture the same thing for 
Niels Juel *there*].

-----
Kong Christian
[In Rigsmål]

Kong Christian stod ved høg en Mast
I Røg og Damp;
Hans Værge hamrede så fast,
at Satans Hjelm og Hjerne brast.
Da sank hvert hedensk Spegl og Mast
I Røg og Damp.
Fly, skreg de, fly, hvad flygte kan!
Hvo står for Rigets Christian (2x)
I Kamp?

Niels Juel gav Agt på Stormens Brag.
Nu er det Tid!
Han hejsede det Røde Flag
Og slog på Fjenden Slag i Slag.
Da skreg de høgt blandt Stormens Brag:
Nu er det Tid!
Fly, skreg de, hver, som véd et Skjul!
Hvo kan bestå mod Rigets Juel (2x)
I Strid?

O, Nordhav! Glimt af Wessel brød
Din mørke Sky.
Da ty'de kjæmper til dit skjød;
Thi med ham lynte Skræk of Død.
Fra Vallen hørtes Vrål, som brød
Den tykke Sky.
Fra Riget lyner Tordenskjold;
Hver give sig i Himlens Vold (2x)
og Fly!

Vores Riges Vej til Ros og Magt,
Sortladne Hav!
Modtag din Ven, som Uforsagt
Tør møde Faren med Foragt
Så stolt som du mod Stormens Magt,
Sortladne Hav!
Og rask igjennem Larm og Spil
Og Kamp og Sejer før mig til (2x)
Min Grav!

-----
King Christian
[English translation]

King Christian stood by the lofty mast
In mist and smoke;
His crew hammered so steadfastly,
that Satan's helmet and brain exploded;
Then each heathen hulk and mast sank,
In mist and smoke.
"Fly!" they cried, "fly, he who can!
Who braves the Realm's Christian (2x)
In battle?"

Niels Juel gave heed to the tempest's roar.
Now is the hour!
He hoisted the red flag
and struck the enemy blow after blow.
Then they shouted loudly through the tempest's 
roar:
"Now is the hour!"
"Fly," they cried, "each one who knows a place to 
hide!
Who can defy the Realm's Juel (2x)
in a dispute?"

Oh, North Sea! A glimpse of Wessel rent
your murky cloud!
Then giants were sent to your bossom;
because from him flashed terror and death like 
lightning.
From the waves was heard a wail, that rent
your murky cloud.
From the realm flashed Tordenskjold;
Let each commend his soul to heaven (2x)
and fly!

Our realm's road to fame and might,
Dark-rolling sea!
Receive thy friend, who, scorning flight,
dares to meet danger with despite,
proudly as you, the tempest's might,
Dark-rolling sea!
And amid pleasures and alarms,
and war and victory, be your arms (2x)
my grave!

-----

-kristian-
 

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:56:54 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 articles 
       
 


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 26. juli 2003 18:32
Emne: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 
articles


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
-----<snip>-----
> > Those that are against the plan are concerned
> > about the long term and
> > pragmatic effects of voting yes. They say 
that
> > while Alonso Rivera,
> > the current Floridian governor of the Cruzan
> > islands, is a sympathetic
> > governor, no one can know for sure who will
> > replace Alonso when he
> > retires, and whether his replacement will be
> > just as sympathetic. Past
> > governors have been quite brutal.
>
> He is nearing retirement, regardless of the
> outcome of the Referendum. There is no way to
> predict who of the likely contenders will get 
the
> prize, though. The current Governor of 
Martinique
> would like to add the tourism and plantation
> income potential of the Islands to her own
> portfolio. She is _not_ native friendly. On the
> other hand, the de Borbon family (relatives of
> European royalty) are wealthy and are looking 
for
> an island or two to buy up. They could easily 
buy
> up the Governorship of the Cruzans outright and
> perhaps rent out some of the lesser islands to
> some other competitor.

Neither of the two above mentioned contenders are 
acceptable. The
former for obvious reasons. The latter because it 
seems like the
Borbons want to divy up the islands. Like most 
constitutions, the
Cruzan Constitution states that the territorial 
integrity of the
Cruzan national state must be kept intact, unless 
a referendum shows
that the Cruzans accept it. So, if the Borbons 
buy the islands,
they'll have to buy all of them. If they rent 
them out, they'll have
to rent out all of them.

The whole idea of buying the governorship could 
also seem a bit of an
insult to many Cruzans - especially the older 
people. The way the
islands won their independence was not through 
war, but through purcha
se. In 1917, the SR decided to offer the 
islanders their independence
by putting the islands up for sale to the 
islanders. The SR government
did consider to sell the islands to Florida, 
considering the chaotic
events taking place in the Caribbean at the time. 
But it was
considered more honourable to sell the islands to 
the locals instead.
(This could have been an incentive for Florida to 
take the islands by
force). In 1936, the islanders finally managed to 
save up to purchase
their freedom. But nowadays, the governorship of 
the islands is
periodically sold to Floridian politicians, 
without the Cruzans
themselves recieving anything from such sales. 
It's like selling
stolen property.

> > Those that are undecided are split between 
the
> > desire for peace on the
> > one hand and fears of who will eventually
> > replace Alonso Rivera on the
> > other. Most of the undecided don't intend to
> > vote.
>
> That could be disasterous for the Cruzans!
> Personally, I don't care which way they vote -
> but they _need_ to do so!

It's basically the same problem as *here*. From 
what I have read of
the Virgin Islanders, very very few are 
politically interested and
those very few that are are very loud. Voter 
turnout is one of the
lowest in the USA and UK. I think the attitude is 
somewhat like, "It
doesn't help to vote, the local politicians are a 
joke, and the US/UK
gov'ts decides everything anyways." Similar thing 
*there*: "It does
not help to vote, the exiled politicians are 
powerless, and the naval
powers (Florida and Scandinavia) decide 
everything anyways". Slightly
misinformed, of course, but that's the mentality 
I guess.

> It would be so tragic if some rapacious 
governor
> came to power in Cruzans or war broke out over
> the place just because no one turned out to 
vote.

I know!

> If there's gonna be a war, at least it should 
be
> known before hand that the Cruzados willed to
> take the chance on it!

I agree.

> > *****
> > READER'S FORUM
>
> Interesting opinions!
>
> > ---
> > On one hand, the Floridians did take our
> > freedom away from us in 1946.
> > But we have since gained a little more with
> > Alonso Rivera as governor.
> > I'll be the first to admit that it's not near
> > as much freedom as we
> > had before 1946, but it's what we have. I 
say,
> > we should deal with it and vote "yes".
>
> Somewhat misinformed, but I think one of the 
more
> sensible Cruzados!

Not entirely misinformation. A bit of it is 
nostalgia too. Sixty years
is enough to bring a certain amount of nostalgia 
about the "good old
days when the Danes were here". Incidentally, 
that's the same thing
you meet in the US Virgin Islands *here* - even 
after almost 90 years
since the sale.

> > ---
> >
> > Before 1946, when Florida invaded the Cruzan
> > Islands, the islands was
> > an independent state. It did no have a 
governor
> > as it has now. It had
> > a prime minister chosen by the Cruzans
> > themselves. But for more than
> > sixty years now, the islands have been 
reduced
> > to a Floridian
> > territory with a Floridian governor. Their
> > first Floridian governor
> > was definitely a tyrant. On the other hand, 
the
> > current one, Alonso
> > Rivera, is no doubt a sypathetic man. Who 
knows
> > who will replace him
> > when he retires? The fact is, Miami does the
> > choosing of governors not
> > the Cruzan people. I say vote "no" to the 
plan
> > and await help from the Grand Coalition.
>
> Admirable sentiment, but ultimately 
detrimental!
> A yes vote to the Plan will (ultimately)
> eliminate the appointed governorship from the
> Cruzans - citizens will once again elect their
> own Governor/Prime Minister and government.

The man who wrote that, Mikael Jacksen, is what 
you may call an
ultra-rightist Cruzan. He is the oldest exiled 
Cruzan still alive. He
was an officer in the Prinsens Frikorps (the 
Cruzan equivalent of the
Royal Guards), and fought during the Floridian 
invasion. He also
contributed a huge sum of money to purchase the 
islands' freedom in
1936. Like many exiles, he has never forgiven the 
Floridians since. A
bitter old man, to be sure. He is just one of the 
many exiled
Cruzans - many of them quite bitter - who have 
returned to the islands
for the referendum.

> > ---
> >
> > It's a scandal that the Giøteborg government
> > has even allowed the
> > referendum to take place. What use is there 
of
> > having a rigsfælleskab
> > if we are not willing to defend it? It's 
about
> > time the Grand
> > Coalition is formed to put an end to 
Florida's
> > illusions of grandeur.
>
> Clearly, not an inhabitant of the Cruzans!! 
It's
> all well and good for one to shout loudly about
> defending the commonwealth from the safety of
> Norway! The average Cruzado might be a little
> less sure of the commonwealth in this resepct.

The guy who wrote that, Tordenskjold, is a 
descendent of the famous
Norwegian naval hero of the same name. I guess he 
is just trying to be
just as aggressive and fearless as his 
forefather.

-----<snip>-----
> NOTE: There are some rumours that Rivera will
> also try to impress upon HH his own desire to 
see
> the Cruzans (his adopted home, to be sure)
> maintain what they have even though they might
> risk gaining more through war with Florida.

...or risk losing everything.

> Not
> to mention risking the lives of many Floridians
> and Scandinavians; as well as the 
infrastructure
> of Florida itself!

Indeed.

> He is nearing retirement, and is not looking
> forward to the scramble for the Governorship 
once
> he steps down. He'd really like nothing more 
than
> to quietly retire in his Charlotte Amalia
> townhouse in a (quite reasonably) free and
> undamaged Cruzan Islands.

Makes sense.

> While it's totally unofficial and unknown even 
to
> Higgins-Calvo, Rivera is probably planning to
> invite the Prince to _privately_ review some of
> the Floridian defenses in the Islands. It's a
> dangerous game, to be sure, if HH blabs about 
the
> sort of things that _might_ be awaiting the 
SR's
> forces when they try to land in the Islands. On
> the other hand, Rivera's motives are really not
> as impure as they might seem: he wants to 
impress
> on someone he sees as a representative of the 
SR
> government that Florida is serious about the
> Cruzans whichever way the Cruzados vote.

Good motive. His Highness is well versed in the 
military. He himself
is a member of the Frømands Korps (Navy Special 
Forces), he has been
in the Sirius Patrol (which crosses the Antarctic 
every year by
dogsled to emphasize SR claims to the continent), 
and he is also a
pilot in the Navy Air Corp.

However, he does not have any political influence 
over the politicians
in Gjøteborg. His function as Crown Prince and 
Heir to Norway is
strictly ceremonial. So I doubt he'll blab 
anything to the
politicians. But _if_ war begins to stir, he'll 
certainly blab - for
sure.

-----<snip>-----

Anyways, in every Cruzan city His Highness 
visited, he adressed the
public urging the people to vote, and reminding 
the people that voting
is their right and that they should excercise 
that right as free
people. As a ceremonial figure, he is not allowed 
to make any highly
political statements. But let's hope that his 
visit and his speeches
is enough to urge the Cruzans to turn up 
tomorrow.

-kristian-
 

Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:56:11 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 articles 
       
 


--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> > He is nearing retirement, regardless of the
> > outcome of the Referendum. There is no way to
> > predict who of the likely contenders will get
> > the prize, though. The current Governor of
> > Martinique
> > would like to add the tourism and plantation
> > income potential of the Islands to her own
> > portfolio...

> Neither of the two above mentioned contenders
> are acceptable. 

I rather doubt _any_ of them have been
acceptable! I'm sure it's bad enough to be
occupied, but worse to have one's local
governance doled out to the highest bidder.

Popular as Rivera himself has been and as
honorably as he's dealt with his charges, he's
still a governor appointed at the whim of
Florida's president.

> The
> former for obvious reasons. The latter because
> it seems like the
> Borbons want to divy up the islands. Like most
> constitutions, the
> Cruzan Constitution states that the territorial
> integrity of the
> Cruzan national state must be kept intact,
> unless a referendum shows
> that the Cruzans accept it. 

Oh, I understand. They wouldn't care, though.
It's not so much that the Cruzans would be split
- just that the governorship would be shared by
vicegovernors who would pay the de Borbons for
the right to govern whichever islands they pick
out. That way, the de B get rights over the whole
island group, but only have to actually pay Miami
for the island they wish to govern directly.

Sort of like if you buy a car and six other
people to pay 1/7 of its value for the right to
drive it one day a week. You retain title and the
right to kick out any of the others.

> So, if the Borbons buy the islands,
> they'll have to buy all of them. If they rent
> them out, they'll have
> to rent out all of them.

Mind you, they're not "buying the islands". While
the status of the Cruzans is in dispute (at least
from the Cruzado and SR points of view - the
status is moot as far as Miami is concerned), F-C
has assumed de facto control of them. Naturally,
they need to govern such territories and have at
times decided to sell the governorship to the
highest bidder. 

The effect of this arrangement is that the
Governor takes full responsibility for keeping
the peace, creating and maintaining
infrastructure and services, levying taxes and
distributing the proceeds for the common good.
Basically, Rivera _is_ head of an independent
feudal state for which he owes fee to the
president of Florida. His pay comes out of the
general kitty; and the Cruzans have generally
proven _quite_ profitable to its past governors.
Thus, Florida gets territory that it doesn't have
to pay to maintain.

This situation will come to an end tomorrow,
however. With the end of the feudal
governorships, Miami will have to take on its
proper (and long overdue!) responsibility for the
Cruzans.

Sometimes the system works nicely, as it has in
the Cruzans for the most part. Even the crooked
governors have maintained the Islands'
infrastucture and services _pretty_ well.
Compared to some other islands around, the
Cruzados have had it _very_ well. Martinique has
not fared well; Tobago has not fared well. Turks
and Caicos are hurting.

The whole system was only meant to be temporary -
it was never intended to be the way Floridian
citizens were to be ruled. Unhappily, the wars
didn't all go as easily as F-C had hoped; and
naturally, not everyone wanted to give up their
False Claims on Floridian sovereign territory! ;)

You can thank Rivera once again, as it was at his
urging (though Bush has wanted to do it for some
time) that this feudal system is being
dismantled.

> The whole idea of buying the governorship could
> also seem a bit of an
> insult to many Cruzans - especially the older
> people. 

Naturally. I'd be incensed. Currently, the
Cruzados have no home rule or self determination.

Tomorrow will mark the first instance of Cruzado
home rule since 1946.

> The way the
> islands won their independence was not through
> war, but through purchase. 

Interesting!

> In 1917, the SR decided to offer the
> islanders their independence
> by putting the islands up for sale to the
> islanders. The SR government
> did consider to sell the islands to Florida,
> considering the chaotic
> events taking place in the Caribbean at the
> time. 

Certainly would have solved a lot of problems!
Florida would have paid handsomely, too...

> But it was
> considered more honourable to sell the islands
> to the locals instead.
> (This could have been an incentive for Florida
> to take the islands by
> force). 

Most likely. After 1898, Florida sees the whole
Caribbean as national territory, which it is
Florida's fate and manifest destiny to fill with
the glories of the Republic. They would see 1917
as a golden opportunity to easily incorporate new
territory; they would also see the SR of robbing
them by selling the Islands to the islanders.

> In 1936, the islanders finally managed
> to save up to purchase
> their freedom. But nowadays, the governorship
> of the islands is
> periodically sold to Floridian politicians,
> without the Cruzans
> themselves recieving anything from such sales.
> It's like selling stolen property.

Or renting the governance of rightfully conquered
territory, depending on your point of view! :)

> It's basically the same problem as *here*. From
> what I have read of
> the Virgin Islanders, very very few are
> politically interested and
> those very few that are are very loud. Voter
> turnout is one of the lowest in the USA and UK.


Yeah - Americans are pretty lousy anymore about
voting. I suppose places like VI and PR would be
even worse than the mainland.

> I think the attitude is somewhat like, "It
> doesn't help to vote, the local politicians are
> a joke, and the US/UK
> gov'ts decides everything anyways." Similar
> thing *there*: "It does
> not help to vote, the exiled politicians are
> powerless, and the naval
> powers (Florida and Scandinavia) decide
> everything anyways". Slightly
> misinformed, of course, but that's the
> mentality I guess.

Hopefully they've seen how important this one
election acutally is! Even if they _never_ vote
again, they really need to turn out tomorrow [and
vote YES!!!!]. Too bad we can't pay them to vote
properly... ;) But of course, that would taint
the result - and we all know what kind of trouble
"tainted" elections results in Florida can lead
to! ;)

> > > On one hand, the Floridians did take our
> > > freedom away from us in 1946.

> > Somewhat misinformed, but I think one of the
> > more sensible Cruzados!
> 
> Not entirely misinformation. 

Not from the Scandinavian POV, to be sure! From
the Floridian POV, they liberated the Cruzans and
brougt them into the new Antillean community.

> > Admirable sentiment, but ultimately
> detrimental!
> > A yes vote to the Plan will (ultimately)
> > eliminate the appointed governorship from the
> > Cruzans - citizens will once again elect
> their
> > own Governor/Prime Minister and government.
> 
> The man who wrote that, Mikael Jacksen, is what
> you may call an
> ultra-rightist Cruzan. ... Like many exiles, he
> has never forgiven the Floridians since. A
> bitter old man, to be sure. He is just one of
> the many exiled
> Cruzans - many of them quite bitter - who have
> returned to the islands for the referendum.

Understandable. Hopefully, they won't have had
the time to infect the younger folk with their
poison and bitterness.

I wonder if Jacksen and his ilk will stay on if
the vote is "YES"? I have no doubt they'd stay if
the vote is "NO", on account of them undoubtedly
being at the core of the independence movement.

> > NOTE: There are some rumours that Rivera will
> > also try to impress upon HH his own desire to
> see
> > the Cruzans (his adopted home, to be sure)
> > maintain what they have even though they
> might
> > risk gaining more through war with Florida.
> 
> ...or risk losing everything.

Well, yes. I don't think Rivera will push that
line of reasoning too hard. He's way to much the
positive thinker, the optimist. Leave it to
Higgins-Calvo to stress the alternatives...

> > He is nearing retirement, and is not looking
> > forward to the scramble for the Governorship
> once
> > he steps down. He'd really like nothing more
> than
> > to quietly retire in his Charlotte Amalia
> > townhouse in a (quite reasonably) free and
> > undamaged Cruzan Islands.
> 
> Makes sense.

It should be noted, just for your information,
that Rivera has made his share of enemies during
his tenure in Charlotte Amalia. He also stepped
on not a few toes in getting his ideas enshrined
in the Plan and the framework for the new
Constitution. [_That_ will be another can of
worms for Florida!] He will probably have to
leave Florida altogether if the vote is NO; for
neither of the chief competition for his post are
very friendly with Rivera; and once they get in,
they could make his life very difficult. Or very
short. Either that, or he'll join up with Jacksen
et al. and go in for the war.

Of course, if none of that pans out, there's
always PLAN C...

> > While it's totally unofficial and unknown
> > even to
> > Higgins-Calvo, Rivera is probably planning to
> > invite the Prince to _privately_ review some
> > of the Floridian defenses in the Islands.

> Good motive. His Highness is well versed in the
> military. He himself
> is a member of the Frømands Korps (Navy Special
> Forces), 

Then he probably won't be invited to see
_everything_ in detail!!!!! Well, who knows? You
know, Plan C, and all...

> However, he does not have any political
> influence over the politicians
> in Gjøteborg. His function as Crown Prince and
> Heir to Norway is
> strictly ceremonial. 

Sigh. So unfloridian! Another cultural
difference. "Ornamental" politicians are not an
understood thing!

> Anyways, in every Cruzan city His Highness
> visited, he adressed the
> public urging the people to vote, and reminding
> the people that voting
> is their right and that they should excercise
> that right as free
> people. As a ceremonial figure, he is not
> allowed to make any highly
> political statements. But let's hope that his
> visit and his speeches
> is enough to urge the Cruzans to turn up
> tomorrow.

Not quite what Rivera would have hoped for HH to
say - but not as bad as the speechifiying could
have been! I guess he couldn't have agitated for
a NO vote even if he wished it. It would have
been nice to have a pro-YES message from an SR
representative, though.

Padraic.


Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:43:59 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 articles 
       
 


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: "Costentin Cornomorus" <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 29. juli 2003 23:56
Emne: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - 3 
articles


> --- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
-----<snip>-----
> This situation will come to an end tomorrow,
> however. With the end of the feudal
> governorships, Miami will have to take on its
> proper (and long overdue!) responsibility for 
the
> Cruzans.

A very strong argument to vote YES - if those 
Kakerlakerisje
Koebaners[*] can be trusted to keep their word.

*["Cockroach-like Cubans". Cruzans call all 
Castillian-speaking
Antilleaners as Cubans]

-----<snip>-----
> Tomorrow will mark the first instance of 
Cruzado
> home rule since 1946.

Another strong argument to vote YES.

-----<snip>-----
> Hopefully they've seen how important this one
> election acutally is! Even if they _never_ vote
> again, they really need to turn out tomorrow 
[and
> vote YES!!!!]. Too bad we can't pay them to 
vote
> properly... ;) But of course, that would taint
> the result - and we all know what kind of 
trouble
> "tainted" elections results in Florida can lead
> to! ;)

Excerpt from RR Guinea-Vestindien [Rigets Radio 
Guinea-West India],
30/06/03:

-----<begin excerpt>-----
<polkalypso song ending>

<radio announcer> "Right! I've said it before, 
and I'll say it again,
the Cruzan band, Polka Dotted Guava, has done it 
right with their hit
song 'Guava Jumbo'. Now it's time for a short 
update from the Islands.
It's 16 O'clock."

<news jingle>

<news announcer> "This is the RR News Service! 
The referendum over the
acceptance of Florida's Plan in the Cruzan 
Islands is well under way.
It has been feared that not many would turn up 
today to vote. But so
far, it seems that these fears are alleviated as 
voting constuencies
around the Islands report long queues. Exit polls 
show a slight lead
for the yes voters. In other news..."
-----<end excerpt>-----

-----<snip>-----
> Understandable. Hopefully, they won't have had
> the time to infect the younger folk with their
> poison and bitterness.

Many younger folks would certainly consider him 
to be an old grouch -
though a respectable old grouch.

> I wonder if Jacksen and his ilk will stay on if
> the vote is "YES"? I have no doubt they'd stay 
if
> the vote is "NO", on account of them 
undoubtedly
> being at the core of the independence movement.

Many would stay. Home is home - and home is 
certainly more homely when
its peaceful too. But that won't necessarily 
change their views.

Others have already established themselves quite 
well in Gjebaland, so
they'll return to Africa after the referendum.

-----<snip>-----
> Of course, if none of that pans out, there's
> always PLAN C...

PLAN C?

-kristian- 
 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:52:26 +0200 
Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: New to the list 
       
 


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: <[email protected]>
Til: <[email protected]>
Sendt: 30. juli 2003 17:05
Emne: Re: [conculture] Re: New to the list


-----<snip>-----
> Ahah! That would be better! Had that suggestion 
been made in the
first
> place, I would've instantly accepted instead of 
thinking about it
for a
> day :)

OK then. It's settled. Welcome Home! ;)

Here's a little about the Duchy of Schleswig and 
Scandinavia in Ill
Bethisad which you might want to know - I'll just 
be brainstorming
randomly:

Schleswig is part of the Rigsfælleskab (The 
Commonwealth of the
Scandinavian Realm). We call it SR for short. I 
think the Germans
prefer to call the SR as Die Oldenburgisch 
Gesamstat (or somesuch)
because the monarchs of the SR belong to the 
Danish Oldenburg royal
family. Oldenburg itself is part of the SR, 
though is a fife of the
German Union (which the Germans themselves still 
call the Holy Roman
Empire). The same is true of Holstein. Schleswig 
is a fife of Denmark,
but since Denmark and Schleswig are in personal 
union, it's not really
relevant. If that sounds complicated, well, 
that's because it is -
though it's nowhere near as complicated as 
Schleswig-Holstein was
before the Great Nordic War (early 1700s).

Schleswig is in political union with the Duchy of 
Holstein since an
old medieval agreement states that they must 
always be ruled together.
Together they are called Schleswig-Holstein.

Schleswig is predominantly Danish-speaking with a 
large
German-speaking minority. There are also 
minorities of North Frisians
and (now) Føtisk. Holstein is predominantly 
German-speaking.

Schleswig-Holstein is an associated member of the 
SR. This means that
it is basically an independent state in free 
association and personal
union with the SR. Free association means that 
Schleswig-Holstein
shares some things with the SR including the 
navy, the specie
currency, and the state church. This does not 
hinder the state to have
its own army and courant currency. Because of the 
shared navy, foreign
policy is regulated by the SR. Personal union 
means that the monarch
of the SR is also the Duke/Duchess of Schleswig 
and Holstein. The
current Duchess is Margrethe II.

Schleswig-Holstein's courant currency system is 
based on the North
German system of:
     1 Rigsdaler/Reichsthaler = 3 marks = 48 
skillings/schillings
     (in contrast to the Danish system of 1 Rd = 
6 M = 96 ß)

The current exchange rate between the courant 
currency and the specie
is rather stable at 25%:
     1 Rd Schl-Hol Courant + 25% = 1 Rd Specie
     so
     1 Rd 12 ß Schl-Hol Courant = 1 Rd Specie

Schleswig-Holstein is one of three SR states 
where the nobility still
have a lot of influence in local politics. (The 
other two SR states
are Gadangmeland, and Monland. The rest of the SR 
states have had
their nobility "phased out"). The country is 
divided into estates
administrated by the nobility, and they are 
guaranteed a certain
number of seats in the parliament. The remaining 
seats are occupied by
popularly elected commoners. The Duchess is 
represented by her
appointed Rigsombudsman, who makes sure that the 
estates are managed
properly and that the commoners are treated 
properly.

Though there is freedom of religion, the state 
religion is Evangelican
Lutheran.

The political capital of Schleswig-Holstein is 
Flensburg, but the
Duchal capital is Schleswig. Gottorp Palace in 
Schleswig is where the
Duchess lives during the summer. The political 
capital of the SR is
Gjøteborg (Gothenburg). Its royal capital is 
Kjøbenhavn (Copenhagen).

The alphabet used throughout the SR is German 
Black Letters (a.k.a.
Gothic Letters). People write cursive in the 
Sütterlin script. Roman
letters and Roman cursive scripts are also taught 
in school, but are
only used in situations where foreigners may need 
help; coinage,
shipnames, flags, train station names, etc.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

-kristian-
 

Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:22:17 -0700 (PDT) 
Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Rigets Tidende - The Results! ...and more. 
       
 


--- Kristian Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
> RIGETS TIDENDE - GJØTEBORG, HOVEDSTADSOMRÅDET
> 31/07/03
> 
> *****
> IT'S YES, SLIGHTLY

Well, it will now fall to the commentators to
analyse the turnout and the results. Such an
election is best when the margin is wide: I
wonder if anyone will try to posit claims of
irregularities that could jeopardise the results?

Well, now at least the Plan can take its full and
proper effect. The Cruzados can (and in two weeks
will) elect their new government, and the
condominium can take effect for good or ill. I
think the sudden inrush of Scandinavian troops
and flags and Queens will be overwhelming; but at
least Rivera seems to be taking it in stride. I
suspect that some backlashes will be felt over
the next few weeks and months - especially as the
realities of the condominium take effect in the
face of expectations.

There have been rumblings that Bush took Florida
to the cleaners in allowing the Referendum; and
that the whole Plan reeks of caving to European
imperialists. There will also - undoubtedly - be
some disagreement over the nature and amplitude
of Cruzan sovereignty. The fact the Queen is
moving in with her armies (and that most
Floridian troops will be leaving) are sending
mixt signals. Also the Plan left certain things
unresolved: the specific nature of the new Cruzan
government with respect to the National
Government (is it subordinate? is it coequal? is
it somewhat lesser? who's word is the final
law?). Personally, I think so long as defense is
kept national and the (national) taxes are paid;
the transition will be smooth and fairly
uneventful.

Oh yes ... Plan C ...

Let's just be thankful that it didn't pan out. 

Suffice to say that Rivera has (slowly)
accumulated like minded persons in military (and
civilian) leadership roles in the Islands over
the last two decades or so. Not to mention
requesting of Miami some pretty high tech and
powerful militaria. [All to defend Florida's
national interests in the Cruzans, of course!!!]
I suspect that Plan C might have involved
something of a coup, and possibly an opening of
the military bases to Scandinavian (and
Coalition) forces. I think that may have been one
reasons why Rivera invited HH to review the
Cruzan's defenses - a kind of under the table
recce in the event that the Referendum was NO and
war was initiated.

Padraic.

It is now known that Florida-Caribbea abolished the death penalty in 1988.
Before this time, capital offences included murder, armed robbery, treason
and the like. While the penalty was officially abolished, many courts
continued to hand down death sentences, and many regional prisons continued
to execute criminals. It was not until a Presidential Decree of 2001 ended
the practice definitively: President Bush held the trial judge personally
responsible for any death sentences handed down and the prison's commandant
responsible for any prisoners executed. The incidence of extrajudicial
executions was dramatically reduced after that time.

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