Talk:Slavery in the NAL

This was already discussed on the list soon after I joined IB. Zahir 14:44, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

What is the phenotype of the descendants of these indentured servants? Is it similar to that of African-Americans *here*? Or do they more closely resemble biracial individuals like Barack Obama or Tom Morello? Juan Martin Velez Linares 20:47, 06 October 2015 (CDT)

I think the simple answer to your question is "too much variation to state definitively".

I would hazard the guess that if you look at the descendants of Sally Hemming & Thomas Jefferson you'd get a good idea, though. Far too much will depend on the ancestry of the difer & slave parents (looking backwards in time to the past) and "which way" their descendants married (looking forwards in time towards the present). Some of the Hemmings descendants "look white" while others "look black" (and for any given definition of "black" and "white", which I find extremely difficult to discriminate between). I would imagine that a descendant bloodline that moved to an area of the NAL with a predominantly "black" social structure would be more likely to marry among the local blacks and the 21st century descendants might look more like black Americans *here*. Contrarywise, those who moved among predominantly "white" social structures might be more likely to marry among the local whites (in both case, quite possibly due to a lack of other mestizo folks as well as lack of opposite color folks) and their descendants might look more like white Americans *here*. (Again, for any particular definition of "white" & "black".)

I don't think we could really determine a sure quantity of these populations; but I think we could paint a broad-stroked picture. I'd say that a largeish segment of the NAL's population is 'pure' Newcomer / European, and another largeish segment is 'pure' Native, and another largeish segment, surely, is mestizo. Question then is "what kind of mestizo?" Surely there must have been more than just Pocahontas and John Rolfe getting it together. (If Edith Wilson (*here*, first lady to President Woodrow Wilson) exists *there*, she'd be a Native-Newcomer mestiza.) There must also be some, probably smaller(?) segment of the population that is 'pure' African, possibly even from colonial times. Now, some of these mestizo groups will be Native-Newcomer; others will be Native-African; others Newcomer-African (difers + slaves); and still others Mestizo-Mestizo.

I think it might be fair to say that the NAL could be something of a North-American Brasil as far as racial mixing goes (I don't recall if we ever actually discussed how strong were the tabus against mix marriages, or if this was ever really a problem in the NAL.) And it could very well be the case that the NAL is just chock full of gorgeous mestizos! Elemtilas 06:41, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

Ah, so something like Latin America *here* then? To be honest, that's actually what I thought, that the NAL had a very large population of mixed-race people a la Mexico *here*, probably much more so in the western provinces. Speaking of which, are Louisiannans very mixed-race as well? It would certainly be very cool if the entirety of the Americas was made up primarily of mixed-race people! That must make how Americans of all nationalities and from both continents deal with SNORism very interesting...Juan Martin Velez Linares 09:02, 07 October 2015 (CDT)

Perhaps. I leave to others the sorting out of numbers and statistics. Elemtilas 12:22, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

I hadn't explored that aspect of Louisianne. I'm going to have to delve in and see hwo the French reacted after the slave revolts in Haÿti. Could be that they packed them all up and took them back to the Coasts of Africa and dumped them. Not sure. *delving into a pile of books to investigate* BoArthur 08:17, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

Wait, wasn't Louisianne Not French by then? Or at least de facto highly autonomous with no real French authority? Juan Martin Velez Linares 12:41, 07 October 2015 (CDT)

Also, it says that the Louisiannais disregarded all Napoleonic decrees after 1803. Did this extend to the one about reinstating slavery in the Americas as well? Or did those sneaky slaveholders manage to keep that one followed? Honestly, knowing the behaviour of Louisiannan politicians, I wouldn't put it past them! Juan Martin Velez Linares 13:03, 07 October 2015 (CDT)

I would suspect that some areas of Louisianne remained a little more old school than others. Also, possibly that many of the more bush regions of Louisianne might not see the same rates of mestizismo as you might find in more developed regions. Elemtilas 12:22, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

They were under Le Directoire Louisiannais, and they were against the Napoleonic Decrees. Once Jacques-Dion Astier and Adolphe Brideau were retired from the Directory, Lucien Vavasseur was the sole plantation owner, and through his intermediary he had spread the ideas of a gradual emancipation. The abolitionist group La Liberté Humaine had pushed for this idea to ease the slaves out of the plantation system. Slavery lost its favor more and more as further tales of Haÿti reached the plantations of Saint-Onge, and the results of the bloody slave rebellion there. Between La Liberté Humaine and individual plantation owners, many of the slaves (30%-40% by modern estimates) chose to return to Africa, and were resettled in French Congo largely in what was to become Gabon. Of those that remained in Louisianne, some emigrated eventually to Haÿti, about 5%-10% of those freed. Others intermarried. Because of the gradual transition they were able to find more of a place in society, although about 25% lived north of the Mizouri, and scattered throughout francophone/francophilic territiories in the NAL-SLC following The 1828 War, thus about 55%-75% of the original slaves left Louisianne. They tend to be found largely in the lower Loire Valley, near Shrèveport, and points south. One of them was elected to office, Jerôme Baldi, as Prefect of Saint-Onge. BoArthur 12:38, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

So Louisianne does not have a very large population of people of African descent? Juan Martin Velez Linares 15:51, 07 October 2015 (CDT)

Well, 25%-45% still live there, and given that Saint-Onge is one of the more populous prefectures of the nation, I wouldn't say a small population. I think that Louisianne tends to get increasingly European as you move north, however, I don't think it's because of racism, per se, and as with the NAL, so with Louisianne, I just think that most stayed in the South in times past. I would imagine that Osage has about 15% of the slave-descended population, Mizouri, about 25%, Saint-Onge about 45%, and the remaining 15% are spattered across the other northern prefectures, although more in cities than in the country, although there are a few cities that were homesteaded by those of slave-descent, nearer to the Osage border. As a percent of the whole of the nation, I'm not sure. But they're common enough, and the gradual emancipation allowed for a smoother transition with less poverty. There were Mutual-Aid societies to help those newly-freed land on their feet, as it were. BoArthur 14:21, 7 October 2015 (PDT)

Ah. So the racial makeup of Louisiana is closer to that of the United States *here*? Or was there as much racial mixing as the NAL? Again, it's certainly going to be interesting to see an America with a thoroughly mixed population from Patagonia to the Aleuts! (Well, with a large proportion of mixed-race people) Juan Martin Velez Linares 21:07, 07 October 2015 (CDT)

I'll have to reflect on that. I'm not sure. I know that there's a fair amount of mixing in France, *here*. I'll have to think about that, and about how the native tribes would take to things. BoArthur 06:50, 8 October 2015 (PDT)