If we're trying again to do this and reach a consensus, we should also be clear on the parameters: Only 2-letter codes, or a mix of 1, 2, and 3 letters? Will self-governing, sub-national territories receive codes? If so, which will and which will not? Benkarnell 16:25, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I'm fine for ISO for Autonomous and 3 letter codes. That would give us the most versatility... BoArthur
- Me too. Autonomous or self-governing territories should probably get codes as these tend to be a lot more autonomous and self-governing in IB than *here*. I've added TKN for Turkestan, matching its international licence plate code. Geoff 23:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- I'm leaning toward 1, 2, and 3 letter codes. 2 might work well for some country, but 3 for another. I've added AO (Agion Oros) to the list for the Monastic Republic. Caeruleancentaur 03:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I move that the coding be as follows for France:
- FRF - Francie,
- FRG - Gaulhe,
- FRL or FRA - Algeria
- I favor FRL for Algeria so it doesn't get confused with FRA = France
- Thoughts? BoArthur 21:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Does France overall get an ISO code as well? Exactly how autonomous are Francie and Gaulhe, anyway? I was under the impression that they were more like provinces than self-administering territories. Geoff 23:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- In my opinion, I should think that France itself has an ISO code, as France is an internationally recognised autonomous body. I think that France's subregions should fall under some French standards organisation as far as codes are concerned, not the OIS/ISO/etc. So I'd vote against FRF, FRG and FRL and any other non-international body, unless the OIS/ISO is into the business of creating codes for everything down to the colour of a lad's y fronts. All the more so since Gaulhe and Francie are not even political bodies within France, but seem to be cultural regions.
- As I've always understood the matter from Christophe, Francie and Gaulhe are simply traditional (though perhaps not necessarily terribly ancient) regions like "the north" or "the midwest" in the US, not autonomous bodies. Obviously, the basis is cultural and linguistic in nature, with northern France being composed of the Langues d'Oil, of which Francien is the eponymous chief player and southern France of the Langues d'Oc of which Narbonosc is the chief player. (I also seem to recall some Langues d'Si, but I couldn't place one now!) I wouldn't propose ISO codes for northern and southern France any more than I would for the Midlands or the Lake District of England.
- The article on France seems to confirm this. In specific: "...While there is a a federal government, and both Gaulhóscs and Franciens feel they are French and part of the same country, one must be aware that Gaulhóscs are strongly Gaulhósc and Franciens strongly Francien first, and being French is a secondary concern (usually only when the national football team is playing)." Aside: I think it might be just a tad misleading and I should probably note that, while the northern French consider themselves distinct from the south, many do not consider themselves "Franciens". That's a term that really applies only to the Franciens proper, in Ile de France. No self respecting Walloon (in particular) or Brehon (especially) or Normand (also especially) or Picard or Burgund would ever confuse his own ethnos with those chappies around Paris! It probably would have been better if we'd used a different term than "Francie" for the whole of the north, but that's by now a fait accomplis and about as QSS as can be and changing it would upset too many applecarts.
- I might first suggest that initial energies be placed into deciding what the OIS/ISO actually is and does and how far down into a sovereign state or organisation's business its authority extends (for example, I don't think that the NAL's car plates necessarily contain an OIS code -- car licensing is a provincial matter, not an international matter; nor is there an OIS code on the coins or currency (there are Commonwealth codes, but that's a different matter!)). Looking at the article ISO Codes, we see only lists and nothing much about what the lists are really for except for a couple tantalising hints regarding international post and some countries' car plates. Should probably also resolve the potential legal issues alluded to in that article re the real ISO. Elemtilas 00:11, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- From what I've seen, the initial raison d'être for the 2-letter codes was simply for the page names on the FOIB website. Concern was expressed that should the list become a matter of QSS, it would create strange constraints as more countries were discovered in Ill Bethisad needing codes. You're right, I think, that it may make more sense to first clarify what these codes are used for *there*. *Here* the 2-letter codes are used in Internet domain names, which are probably just coming into use *there*, perhaps within the last 10 years or so. Benkarnell 11:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
What is OIS for, anyway?
Since Padraic raised the question (and it really does precede any other efforts) -- What would the IB world use the OIS coding for? BoArthur 16:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- Personally, I think an ISO-equivalent organisation seems frightfully un-IB. Diversity is more likely to be celebrated than standardised *there*. However, I can see a place for internationally-recognised country codes. It would probably simplify international shipping and freight handling, and might well ease the life of worldwide organisations such as the League of Nations and the Neutral Aid Society to have a standard short code for all of the nations of the world.
- The real advantage of such codes, as I see it, is that they are standard, whereas even country names can sometimes vary wildly between languages:- Japan vs Nihon-cocu, Armenia vs Hayastan, Georgia ve Sakartvelo. So does the quetion become: "Forget OIS. What would IB need international country codes for?"? Geoff 22:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
- One answer, that you already point out, is international mails. We know there is an international postal union, and I would imagine that among their byzantine rules and regulations there must be a listing of standardised letter codes. Within a country, I can see the need for regional/provincial codes, such as the provincial codes used by the Royal Post in the NAL. We've never developed an actual list, but I think two-letter codes much like *here*'s USPS codes are sensible, or perhaps three letter codes. The FK also uses various code schemes, though these I think are regulated by the individual member states. Of course, none of this requires an actual OIS -- just a postal treaty.
- You raise an interesting point that the OIS might actually be rather un-IB in nature. Too much standardisation over too wide an area I suppose. IB has a lot of standardisation, it's just that mose of it is blocwise: the Commonwealth; western scientific standards v. eastern; the EF; etc. Broad standards, but not universal standards, seems to be the way of IB. Perhaps entities like the Commonwealth of the Francophone nations has their own set of standards organisations? Perhaps the LoN has one (they'd almost certainly need one even if they didn't actually have one!)? Elemtilas 01:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)