Talk:Ouisconsin

If nobody minds, I would like to accept the invitation and do some work on this my home province. Benkarnell 09:17, 6 December 2007 (PST)

Flag

I like the wolf and stars, but something about the flag doesn't seem "native" enough to me. I have two ideas that I crudely put together on MSPaint. Each has eight stars for the eight nations in Ouisconsin at the time of its establishment (Potawatomi, Ho-Chunk, Sauk, Fox, English, Scottish, Kemrese, and French). The first takes its cues from the Cherokee flag. Benkarnell 22:33, 5 December 2007 (PST)

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I like the wolf and stars motif too. I don't like the arc of stars all that well, or at least not wolf on top of arc and the "stop sign" of stars only marginally better. I would prefer a circle of stars (symbological equality of all eight nations circled around the local council fire sort of thing). I could go with wolf running under an arc of stars as well. In any event, whatever final form is chosen, I would hope the general motif is retained! Elemtilas 19:22, 6 December 2007 (PST)

Like I said, they're crude. The stop sign is supposed to be a circle... Benkarnell 20:32, 6 December 2007 (PST)

Oh lovely! The invite is always open! As designer of the original flag, I can tell you my idea was to blend European and Native influences. Perhaps Ouisconsin began with this flag but is now debating over a newer, more Native design al one of Benkarnell's flags? Zahir 13:44, 7 December 2007 (PST)

Oh, don't feel obligated. The cultural blend is probably more in keeping with the nature of Ouisconsin. My time making the flags was not wasted; they're only sketches that took 5 minutes to copy-paste together. Benkarnell 14:48, 7 December 2007 (PST)

However, could the symbolism be modified? I think my uneasiness was never with your flag itself, but with the fact that simply representing the 3 largest cities seems... uninspiring? What if instead of the cities, the stars symbolize Natives, Newcomer settlers at the time of incorporation, and more recent immigrants from other lands (eg Germans, Veneds). Benkarnell 14:34, 21 December 2007 (PST)

Capital

I'm just full of concerns, I guess. Assuming it's supposed to be the same thing as *here*'s Springfield, Illinois, Springfield could not be the capital as it is south of the Illinois River, putting it inside the borders of Illinoise. I propose Prairie du Chien, where the Ouisconsin River meets the Mississippi. It was an important early settlement and catches the French flavor of the early days. It's not very centrally located, however (pretty far to the NW). A more centrally located capital might actually be Chicago or Milwaukee. Benkarnell 12:57, 6 December 2007 (PST)

Actually, in an old Conculture archive (from Padraic in 2003, right here) the capital is given as "St. Francis." I have no idea where that would be, but it seems as QSS as anything else. Benkarnell 16:29, 6 December 2007 (PST)

That came from an old map of North America, which I will have to find in order to determine where "Saint Francis" is. There is a city of St. Francis just outside of Milwaukee -- it could be that *there*, Milwaukee is called "St. Francis". Or it could be elsewhere altoghether! Give me a chance to look into it! Elemtilas 19:33, 6 December 2007 (PST)

Borders

All the maps showing the NAL make it appear that the border twixt Ouisconsin and Illinoise is _not_ the Illinois River. This border would make the southern portion of OU rather thin and scrawny, not full and rounded as it looks in the maps. The article on St. Louis states that Alton (on the Mississippi _below_ its confluence with the Illinois) is part of OU-- both of which make it seem that the border with IL is somewhat to the south of the IL River.

A Conculture post, however, indicates that the border _is_ at the confluence of the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers. And this wiki explains that Peoria/Creve Coeur, on the Illinois, is divided between both provinces. What does it all mean?

Here's my thought for the border:

Border with Louisianne for a brief stretch of the Missouri River: this means that the tiny wedge of land between the Mississippi and Missouri is part of OU rather than Les Plaines. Alton is located on this wedge, on the site of *here*'s West Alton.

The border between Illinois and this little wedge of OU land is the Mississippi. To the north, the border is the Illinois River from its mouth upriver for about 50 miles. Then it jogs over to the Sangamon River, meeting it just below Springfield. So Springfield itself is in Illinoise.

The border follows the Sangamon River until its big bend near Champaign. For whatever reason, *there*'s Fort Crevecoeur and the divided city of Peoria were built on the site of *here*'s Decatur, on the Sangamon rather than the Illinois.

Near this bend in the Sangamon, Ouisconsin, Illinoise, and Miami come together. The border with Miami cuts north from the river to Lake Michigan, crossing the Kankakee River about 20 miles below Kankakee and hitting the Great Lake inside the city limits of *here*'s sprawling Chicago, just south of the UoC campus.

In contrast, the border could simply follow the Illinois River the whole way, then the Kankakee, and then across to Lake Michigan at about the same place. This would contradict the maps but would not require moving Peoria.

Benkarnell 15:07, 21 December 2007 (PST)

For the sake of closure, I'll say that the border I drew on the map is sort of a compromise between the Illinois and the Sangamon. Peoria is in the same place. St. Francis is at the site of Rockford. Benkarnell 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is Ouisconsin pronounced? Like Ow-sconsin or -Oh-iss-sconsin, oh-wisconsin? Misterxeight 00:14, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that it is pronounced the same as Wisconsin, as it looks like a French spelling. As in the French word oui=yes. ja oder nein? Geofturner 11:20 30 Oct 08 AEDST

Oui. The French were still the most numerous European/Newcomer group at the time of provincehood, and their spelling became the standard. This map shows the old spelling in use *here* (although the long s's make it look like "Ouifconfin"). Benkarnell 02:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

In french, "ou" is pronounced "oo". when in front on a vowel, it act like a "w" like in oui or ouate [wat] (cottonwool).--Marc Pasquin 17:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

It's pronounced something like /wIskansIn/. Like here. Actual Fromagian pronunciation may vary! The spelling is consistent with Kerno orthography, and that was probably the deciding factor when I named the province, rather than changing the spelling to W-. That it's also the French spelling is convenient in that it provides a folk etymology for all the Ouisconsonian trivia mavens! Elemtilas 20:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Folk etymology? I thought that was pure, unadulterated retconning. Were there that many Kerno running around Ouisconsin in the early days? Benkarnell 20:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Could have been named by a Kemrese / Kernow explorer, or there could have been an early Kemrese presence. Or could be the famous descendants of Prince Mataccos. I leave the actual explanations up to someone else -- I'm just offering what I had in mind at the time! Elemtilas 02:57, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

No, but Padraic, being a KerNALien tended to name things along the language he knows. And speaking of retconning, you can assume that your last name Karnell (if that is your last name) is likely a derivative of your Kemrese ancestry. :D BoArthur 21:58, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Karnell (in real life spelled with a C plus a rogue h toward the end) most likely does mean "Cornish/Kerno". It's mainly found in Devon and indicates that one had ancestors in Cornwall. According to Padraic, the true Kerno form would be Cornouaille. So you were actually right on with that. :D Benkarnell 02:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

But in IB Leganopolous is still Greek right? :) Misterxeight 23:36, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

And that (for whatever reason) made me wonder how to IB-ify your name. Evolved into Costanice, according to my no-doubt wrong understanding of http://www.jaspax.com/lang/content/view/30/29/ , it might be Kuestas Lixanuepulus. Maybe. Benkarnell

Lord Governor's flag

Two ideas for the Lord Governor's flag. They are based on an eight-starred design used as a battle flag in the 1828 war by the military alliance that became Ouisconsin. They represented the Eight Nations of Ouisconsin (the four tribes plus French, Scots, Kemrese, and English). The ninth star represents other ethnic groups, and the nine stars can also represent the nine subdivisions of the province.

Looking at them side by side, I prefer the rectangle one. Plus it has the same proportions as the provincial flag, so they'd look good side by side. Benkarnell 23:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I like the rectangle one, too. But I have to ask, "They are based on an eight-starred design used as a battle flag in the 1828 war by the military alliance that became Ouisconsin." Is this The 1828 War that you're referencing? I don't know that the French would've hopped in bed with the rest in that case, unless you've got a bit of history you'd like to insert (and I'm not dead-set against that idea, either, fyi). BoArthur 23:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The French were the largest single European group in OU at the time. They preferred to be independent of Louisianne, and they joined Black Hawk's coalition in 1828 to resist the Louisiannais invasion, and later consented to NAL provincehood in order to maintain their autonomy. That, anyway, has been the basis for the history I've been using. Benkarnell 23:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

That sounds like something good, to me. You should add that into the 1828 War page. BoArthur 15:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Just to be a voice of dissent here, I actually prefer the square one. It just looks tidier somehow. Geoff 03:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

You would. But seriously, I can see that it could work, it would just depend on the sizing in comparison with the flag of Ouisconsin. BoArthur 15:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)