Talk:League of Mediterranean and Pontic Peoples

As the #1 repository of Greek culture in North America, Ouisconsin (or even the City of Chicago) loves sending observer delegates to these kinds of cultural organizations to show off how many nationalities are represented in the province. But then, I'm not sure what sort of organization this is going to be eventually. (I had thought this was to be a more or less "regional" organization, but Nea Illenicia on the list makes me think that it's more about culture.) Benkarnell 12:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

It's a basically all the Meditteranean/Pontic nations (usually with a big Greek population) coming together to provide trade alliance, protection from hostile nations, and dealing with issues that are plaguing the nations. I'm thinking of seperating this from like a community of Hellenophone States with Greece, Nea Illenicia, Libya, and maybe some observer states, like the NAL. Misterxeight 17:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, so Nea Illenicia would be more likely to join the Hellenophone States. Although, they have been occupied at least once by Riu de l'Argent and might welcome an invitation to join a defensive pact. The Pontic states, however, would probably not want to commit themselves to defending some indefensible place in South America.

Ouisconsin might be more likely to join the Hellenophones as an observer than the entire NAL. This is relatively common in Ill Bethisad, especially when the whole nation has little interest in the group, but the subdivision does. In this case, Ouisconsin has an important Greek heritage (mostly in Chicago), whereas the Hellenes have almost no presence in the League as a whole. You might know this: Have any other cities or regions attracted Greek immigrants? Are there any rural areas settled by Greek farmers? Benkarnell 18:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you want me to list the big Greek American cities here? There's a city in Florida called Tarpon Springs (or some spelling like that) that's 100% ethnically Greek. Misterxeight 19:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

proposed League flag/banner

Because I couldn't resist, how about this for a potential flag of this League? I wanted to suggest the Mediterranean (the blue field) with an echo of past glories (the golden eagle) with a suggestion of many members that surround and define the past (the white stars in a circle). There is also room for a canton in the upper left. What do you think? Zahir 19:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Misterxeight 20:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

While looking at Rhobert Bholton's page I saw something about how he did not particularly like Constantine XIII which got me to thinking, how many know about him that are not Greek citizens or affiliated with Greece in anyway at all? How many foreign diplomats or rulers attended his coronation of May 25th, 2008? How many nations actually like him? Misterxeight 20:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Coronations are generally events not to be missed by the hoity-toity of the world. This one is a little different cos king Constantine seems to be claiming a title not proper to himself (Byzantine Emperor). Though if that's not the case, then ignore the following. Probably some rather high officials, perhaps the PM (or one of his delegates) of Kemr, as a protest, and perhaps Queen Diana of England/Scotland would certainly be there. I'm sure the guest list would include similar dignitaries from everywhere else. Doesn't have anything to with whether or not they like him -- Constantine himself doesn't even matter. Among the quality, the whole thing is TO BE SEEN at such a do. If you're on the list and make a grand appearance, the new king himself could be a frog. In this case, he might be, it's too soon to tell.

As for who likes king Constantine; that list is probably rather short. It might even include his new wife. He comes across as a petulant and pretentious little git, which could be problematic for the ignorant; but at least everyone knows he is a petulant and pretentious little git, so it all evens out in the end. He can throw his parties and try so very hard to impress; but everyone knows. Elemtilas 21:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me that every state with reasonably friendly (or not unfriendly) relations with Greece sent someone to the coronation. Given that it was a somewhat hurried affair, I suspect many of the more prominent royal families sent rather less prestigious relatives to the actual event. These folks' schedules are often crammed. Still, I would think most of their neighbors would send somebody, as would nearly ever major royal family in Europe at least, while most countries that even have diplomatic relations will Greece would do their best to show support and respect. Zahir 22:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Oi, how did the FK get roped into this? I wouldn't exactly call them "Mediterranean" or "Pontic". Juan Martin Velez Linares 13:03, 28 September 2015 (CDT)

They have territories all across the Mediterranean, and they are, to some degree, the US of IB. Also, in the description given above, it's for any nation with a large Greek contingent, too. BoArthur 11:34, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

Ah, I see. Though... Wouldn't we just end up with NATO then by the Greek contingent standard? Also, how did Louisianne get involved? Those bloody Dalmatians, perhaps? Also, should I add in Two Sicilies to the list? There's a fair-sized Greek population in that region *here*.Juan Martin Velez Linares 14:22, 28 September 2015 (CDT)

Not necessarily. This is more of a free-trade agreement which might slowly blossom into an EEC and maybe if we get lucky, a sort of EU-like body minus the bitter infighting and threat of mass chaos always around the corner.

As was said, this is also for people with a large Greek population; Louisianne is one of those countries.

Probably not, no. The Two Sicilies and Greece were bitter rivals and one got to keep one of its African concessions, the other did not. I doubt Greek-Sicilian relations are any good. Italy might be a good contender, though; Greek and Italian relations have always been rather warm, especially because it was Savoy that gave the first Greek king his coat of arms. Misterxeight 12:28, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

Bulgaria

I was thinking, just to spice things up, if the LoPMP actually gets off the ground, that while Turkey and Bulgaria might be invited, both would turn down the offer. Because of this, I think that Bulgaria might be pushed into the arms of the Silk Road League, maybe not or never a member, but at least an observer or even an associate member. Bulgaria undoubtedly has many Turks within its borders (the Turkish Party of Bulgaria is the 3rd largest party in our world), and even now, Bulgarians are aware of and proud of their Turkic roots. Also within the Balkans, I could see Sandzak as caught between the two camps, trying to stall for time before it has to pick one over the other. Albania I can see joining the LoPMP because it joining the SRL would be a bit of a stretch at that point. Misterxeight 12:24, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

I think Sanjak just hits the SRL from the get-go. They're basically a fundamentalist Muslim theocracy à la Iran *here*. I think we've drafted that Albania is Christian (Catholic/Greek Orthodox) so they almost certainly gravitate to the Pontic League. Juan Martin Velez Linares 14:28, 28 September 2015 (CDT)

The Silk Road League has nothing about it inherently Muslim. Turkic and Mongolic, yes, Muslim, no. There is also a Sandzaki minority in Greece settled in the northwest since Ottoman times. It's a small country, and it might get more out of this league than one whose closest member is Turkey. Misterxeight 12:30, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

Good point. IDK how Sanjak-Greece relations are doing, though. What's your take? As for Albania, I don't really think it's Turkish enough to enter the league, plus Turkey kind of tried to pull a Muslim rebellion in the area. Of course, maybe the ill will's been forgotten by now. Juan Martin Velez Linares 15:34, 28 September 2015 (CDT)

Now just to be clear, now as we revive the idea we're imagining it as a regional bloc, yes? Because I'm not seeing why countries in the Americas would join something like this unless it was a just-for-fun sort of cultural organization. Benkarnell 15:15, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

Yeah, I'm thinking pretty much the same thing. An international organisation for free trade, mutual defense and all that wouldn't be based on the number of Greeks living somewhere. I can imagine some organisation of hellenophone nations, including Greece, Nea Illenicia, Ouisconsin, that bit in Ethiopia, &c., but that would be about cultural exchange. Or a regional organisation for free trade and the like (in other words, some kind of Baltic League for the Mediterranean), but such an organisation wouldn't include countries outside of Europe. Both organisation might exist simultaneously. But I cannot really see both elements combined in one organisation.

As for Bulgaria, keep in mind that *there* it's pretty much a rogue state. IJzeren Jan 17:02, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

There is a difference between what I want and I've envisioned in my head, and what will be accepted. I am not the caretaker of the Balkans, so I do not have the power to definitively say "yes, this is what Greco-Sandzaki relations are like." I got around that a bit in my write-up of the GRE proposal page (which I hope can be voted on soon), where I mentioned that the Ottomans settled Slavic Muslims and Circassians in northern Greece (which happened in our world). The soldiers in our world did distinguish these refugees from Turkish citizens, and they were only asked to leave during the population exchange of 1923. I'd like to think that Sandzakis know that they have kin in Greece and that they are widely left alone there, and I pictured Greece as an education and employment hub for Sandzaki students and workers, where they might find a safe haven during the war (so I wouldn't expect many of them to be religious). For this reason, I pictured Greece having to diplomatically tread a very fine line between Sandzak and Serbia. I would hope that Greek companies would get a pass to operate in the country. Who knows, perhaps if any remaining Orthodox say they're Greek Orthodox and not Serbian Orthodox, they might be left alone. Misterxeight 20:41, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

I think QSS is that the "population exchanges" (euphemism of the century) did not happen. Benkarnell 09:10, 29 September 2015 (PDT)

Yeah, but I kind of felt cheap writing about that because I'm not the caretaker of neither the Caucasus nor Sanjack. Misterxeight 15:31, 29 September 2015 (PDT)

Schism

Dear all, I was unfortunately typing up a response when my phone timed out (for some reason, my phone doesn't hold passwords on Safari, so I get periodically logged out of things), and I wanted to say that it hit me that there was a similar problem last time around with this; a sort of Hellenophone League needs to be separate from this kind of bloc. Allow me please to create a new page tomorrow (or whenever) where I create a rather harmless group for communities of Greek or Greek-descended countries and associate members with a large diaspora. I can combine this idea with my plan for a Greek version of the Goethe Institut/Instituto Cervantes/La Sorbonne, the Homeric Institute. This group, however, Mr. Jan hit the nail on the head with this group, which would be "for free trade and mutual defense." Allow me to make a brief list of who I think should be in each group...

Community of Hellenophone States (H Κοινωνία των Ελληνοφωνων Κρατών)

• Greece
• Libya
• Nea Illenicia
• Greek Republic of Ethiopia
• provinces of Apulia, Calabria, and some parts of Sicily Kingdom of the Two Sicilies (hopefully)
• Maybe Xliponia?

With Louisianne, Ouisconsin, Lebanon, Syria, the rest of Ethiopia, and perhaps the Two Sicilies

League of Mediterranean and Pontic Peoples

• Greece
• Crimea
• Ukraine
• Armenia
• Georgia
• Adygeya (part of Russia)
• Don Republic (part of Russia, maybe)
• Libya
• Egypt (maybe)
• Cyprus (as part of the UK)
• Syria
• Lebanon
• Judea
• Romanian Federation
• Serbia
• Dalmatia and/or Croatia (double maybe)
• Two Sicilies (big maybe, but it's already part of the European Federation)
• Italy (hopefully, but it's already part of the European Federation)
• Algeria (part of France)
• Aragon (hopefully, but it's already part of the European Federation)
• Albania
• Sandzak as some kind of observer who wants to join so it may benefit but is angry that Serbia joined first

I do not pretend that this is a definitive list. That's a lot of countries, so I need to get the permission of a lot of people. My ultimate dream would be to implement a shared currency (which would not be necessary), but that goal is years away. I imagine this not to compete with the European Federation but to complement it, but that might not be how this idea turns out. Ben, Dan, and I already very much figure that this will become a rival to the Silk Road League (which is a shame because I love reading about the historic Silk Road). Please let me know what you think and what criticisms you all have so that we can make this proposal even stronger. The soon we hammer out ideas, the sooner this can be put up for a discussion on being implemented. Misterxeight 20:41, 28 September 2015 (PDT)

The list sounds good to me, but then again I'm a pretty junior member. From what you suggested Sandžaki-Greek relations sound fairly good, but if Serbia joined first IDK if they're planning to join. Probably caught between the SRL and the Mediterranean League. Aragon's caretaker (Carlos I think) if there ever was one is long bloody gone, so I think you might want to get the opinion of Daniel on that one. I personally don't mind it being part of the Pontic League (IIRC several Baltic League states are part of the EF as well), but really the only thing I'm caretaker of is IB's Equivalents Of Bad Early 2000s Metal Bands, so I probably don't have much authority in that. I think that it's probably an EF compliment and may even operate with EF currency/Schengen border laws (or may be gearing up to) while still being a separate and perhaps more defense-oriented organisation. (Considering many of its members *here* are looking to the EU, this probably isn't too far off.) Which begs the question of if and how a bloc of Pontic League, Baltic League, and EF has formed, and if and how have they responded to the Second Russian Civil War. Juan Martin Velez Linares 22:59, 28 September 2015 (CDT)

The pursuit of currency is enough to make one change one's mind, but if Serbia got there first, it might be the one objecting to Sanjak, not the other way around.

I'm unsure whether or not I like the idea of overlap, especially because I hope for this to eventually become a monetary union. Whether it adopts the currency of the EF, I do not know, but that isn't a bad idea.

What Russian civil war? Misterxeight 15:31, 29 September 2015 (PDT)

The Third Russian Civil War. :P~~ IJzeren Jan 15:45, 30 September 2015 (PDT)