Talk:World Trade Towers
Which is QSS? That the towers fell *there*, too as the article suggests, OR that only parts collapsed? Padraic? Others that were around then and remember? BoArthur 09:06, 8 December 2005 (PST)
- I took the liberty of suggesting the minimum damage that could described as having the towers "collapse" which is that a large chunk of them did, but not the whole thing. The article quoted is from the news page of the IB page. Zahir 09:23, 8 December 2005 (PST)
- Frankly, I was hoping that story would just fly quietly under the radar and not be picked up...alas. My guess is that some kind of high explosive must have been in the cargo areas and after being highjacked, the ships were positioned between the towers. Two commercial ships wouldn't damage the buildings seriously as they're filled with mostly Helium. I doubt the Pentacle was much dammaged either.
- As to who done it, well, speculation is about all anyone's ever had since the event. Basically, no intelligence or police agency (CIO, BI, Interpol) has been able to pin the blame on anyone. Even psychics haven't been able to sort the incident out, and they've certainly been tried at this point.
- The problem is this: the worlds are just too different for this event to have ever happened in IB. Yet, the fact remains that it did happen. As you say, no islamicists, no widespread Islam, no real hatred for the West by these same islamicists. Also, I réally réally doubt that two highjacked commercial zeppelins, even carrying a decent amount of explosives, could have brought down those two buildings.
- All this said, I rather fancy the insurance scam proposal. I would dread any world where the Good Guys could stoop to sub-human tactics just to boost their departmental budgets. I can not support a proposal that places the NAL in this kind of position. Someone "out to destroy someone or something in the buildings" is also a pretty good one. SNOR are out (what would they gain, why would they bother?); Deseret is out (doesn't really have a gripe with the NAL at all -- that one's between LA, A-C and Tehas).
- Mohawk separatists is an interesting concept, but I'd wonder why they'd bother? If there are any Mohawk separatists, I'm sure they'd be in the very small minority: Natives in the NAL have quite a number of provinces and hold positions of prestige and power within the NAL government. I wouldn't be surprised if the next GM were a Native.
- Basically, this is simply a mystery of IB. There is no known physical evidence that links the crime to anyone anywhere. Nevertheless, speculation is always welcome, no matter how weird! Perhaps the Alien Space Bats were somehow involved???
- The article does specifically state that the airships in question were filled with hydrogen--but even so, they'd need a lot of explosives to do that much damage even crashing directly into the building. This isn't like *here* where the impact was so great it knocked flame retardent foam from steel girders then splashed everything with hundreds of gallons of jet fuel!
- Actually, that so much damage did happen is something of a clue, don't you think? That maybe something was seriously wrong with the design? Hmmmm...an insurance scam of titanic purportions.
- Which does bring up another possible bit of skullduggery. Was the investigation perhaps manipulated? Certainly the true culprits didn't want to get caught! Who would they set up? Zahir 18:07, 8 December 2005 (PST)
- The article does indeed say that the ships were filled with Hydrogen, but that doesn't mean the article is right. Also, I doubt that just blowing up two airships in close proximity to the WTT would bring them down.
- You are right that the amount of damage is suspicious. There are folks *here* who think the buildings were nòt destroyed by the airplanes as such, but were in stead "imploded". In other words, they look at the films and based on how the buildings neatly collapsed in on themselves -- just as if some demolition crew had studied them and placed explosives in just the right places, awaiting the time when some "highjackers" would come along and run planes into the place -- conclude that the planes weren't responsible. The neat collapse seems a little suspicious. Elemtilas
- The collapsing of the buildings in that way actually makes perfect sense given the conditions and design. The weakest part of the structure was the center. That is where the heat from hundreds of gallons of jet fuel weakened the steel, after the impact itself knocked off the flame-retardent foam from said steel. Once the center of the structure lost its ability to hold the weight of the building above it, the weight simply went down. In order for the building to "topple" (as the conspiracy theorists would posit) one side of the structure would have to be have been far more seriously compromised than was the case. The sides of the WTC were indeed very well made. For that matter, the interior would have been fairly safe under almost any other imaginable scenario. Another problem with the "planted charges" theory is that it presumes that the conspirators not only knew more-or-less precisely where the planes would strike the building (virtually impossible without test runs) but would have to have some way of insuring that the impact of a huge passenger jet and the intense heat generated by so much burning jet fuel would not disrupt the bomb mechanism, or--more likely--set off the explosives. Twice.
- Can you tell I tend to de-bunk most conspiracy theories? Zahir 09:12, 9 December 2005 (PST)
I created this page because it seems to me such a pivitol and important event simply begs out for explanation. And frankly, I'm hard-pressed to imagine what that explanation might be.
- The more I think about the whole event, the more problems I have with it... For now, though, I must protest this notion of "pivotal and important": it was nòt in any way the pivotal event *there* that it was *here*. *Here*, the whole air transport network was shut down and terrorists were pretty quickly suspected. *There*, the destruction was nòt immediately pegged on terrorists. Americans *there* had absolutely no reason to even suspect or expect such an attack like Americans *here* could have done. It was most likely seen as the work of some oddball renegades and/or fruitloops and was seen as a flash in the pan. The economy *here* was devastated; it was not *there* (apart from clean-up, insurance and rebuilding costs). "Patriot Act" nonsense? Didn't happen in the NAL! There was no need for that kind of over-reaction. Once the initial shock was over, life got on pretty much as before. Americans *there* weren't gearing up for some kind of righteous and globe spanning war. I'm sure condolences came in to New Amsterdam from all over the world, but it was basically a disaster area, not a "second Pearl Harbour". Elemtilas
- Fair enough. However, I will point out that by "pivotal" and "important" I would equate the WTT disaster *there* with the Oklahoma City Bombing *here*, which also strikes me as a "pivotal" and "important" event. I was in no way suggesting that the former had anywhere near or similar consequences as the 9/11 attack. Zahir 10:04, 11 December 2005 (PST)
- All right, that's a little different matter! A shake-up, in other words, but in the end, taken in stride. Elemtilas
Back *here* the 9/11 attacks were motivated at least in part by a belief that God Was On The Side of the attackers, who (so I've read) believed that their fight in Afghanistan was what brought down the Soviet Union. They were and are hoping to do the same with Capitalism and Western-style democracy. Add to that the idea of dying for the faith being a "holy" thing and there you go--an explanation that makes sense.
But the WTT is more of a puzzle. *There* there is no Taliban, no all-pervasive Islam in the Middle East and no large-scale terrorist organizations I can think on. At least none who might target the NAL. So who did this and why?
Some possibilities I might suggest:
- Someone who was out to destroy the buildings and/or something they contained. In that case perhaps it was the owners of the WTT who were the real target. Or someone inside the building whose personal security was lavish enough to require mass destruction to penetrate. Keep in mind we're now talking about someone with a ruthless sense of overkill and a belief in their own aloofness from the deed. Odds are they'd've set up a patsy.
- Some kind of homegrown terrorist group in the NAL. Mohawk Seperatists? A religious cult that was trying to summon the Apocalypse (remember that group who had themselves castrated and committed suicide en masse so they could hitch a ride on Haley's Comet?)? An offshoot of the American Snorists eager to set off civil unrest and/or a civil war?
- The Bush Family. Okay, this seems extremely unlikely to moi. I mean, what would they be hoping to gain? I'm willing to listen to ideas, but I have trouble even seeing a motive for this one. Still, the Bush Brothers are trouble-makers on a fairly epic scale. Who knows, maybe this was Neal's contribution to history?
- A truly massive insurance scam. I mean like gi-normous.
- SNORists. I don't see what would be in it for them, but they are pretty vile and someone is bound to mention them.
- Deseret Resistance. Again, I don't see what they have to gain. But then, I don't pretend to be infallible.
- NAL's own CIO. Nothing helps out an intelligence agency's budget and the careers of those in it than a sense of overwhelming paranoia on the part of its homeland.
- Somebody who hated one of the above enough to frame them.
I am open to feedback. What do you think?
- Hmm ... another problem is that the NAL isn't as important as the US in world terms. I don't believe they have military bases all over the world, for example. Another quandry is why it wasn't solved, or at least pegged on someone. Surely the NAL, and probably the entire Commonwealth, woudl be uniting against whoever it was that did it.
- That said, we need to figure out just who in IB would be sufficiently angry at the NAL or perhaps the Commonwealth to do such a thing. So, who might the NAL have pissed off to that extent? FC? Would be rather stupid of the FC, though, since Bush would have to know that that would lead to massive retaliation. (Though, perhaps the belief that Sr. Bush was involved motivated, in part, the Florida War?) Maybe it was Cruzan Islanders, wishing to frame the FC?
- Maybe it was a religious cult, a kind of NAL version of Aum Shinrikyo. That's my preferred solution. As for what the cult was like ... some bizarre offshoot of Mormonism? The NAL had, after all, more or less kicked Joseph Smith out, so maybe there's some Mormon sect that views the NAL as the Ultimate Evil? One advantage to this is that it doesn't require the NAL to engage in any external wars as a result of the attacks. There'd be a crackdown on that cult, and maybe an overall suspiciousness of other cults, but nothing of worldwide impact
- Or maybe it was those Batavians, still angry at having lost New Amsterdam. ;-) Nik 20:55, 8 December 2005 (PST)
- After chatting with people and looking over posts, I have what might be a workable scenario:
- Since Sept. 2001 investigators have been trying to discover the origins of the disaster. Initially, a lot of public attention was focussed on two things:
- The damage, far worse than it should have been.
- The fact that among the beneficiaries of insurance on the building is the notorious Bush family.
- Both led to rampant speculation and probably helped motivate the NAL's part of the Florida-Carribean War. But nothing was official and Al Gore appointed a Special Prosecutor to find the truth. Now the Special Prosecutor's report is ready, having been prepared with great security:
- The WTT disaster was the result of actions taken by an apocalyptic cult obsessed with the number two, with twins, and with achieving transcendence via altered states of consciousness such as death. Their plan seems almost certainly to have been a spectacular suicide, but shoddy construction on the WTT resulted in far more damage than they anticipated.
- What do you think? Zahir 08:37, 9 December 2005 (PST)
- I just mentioned on Conculture but will say here as well that the Bushes are not "notorious" or "infamous" or in any way "suspect" in the NAL. Let's not confuse George Jr & James with the whole family! After all, there are three other siblings plus the elder George who are all well respected in the business community.
- Have no problem with the Bushes being involved, though. They would certainly make for some rampant speculation!
- The Special Prosecutor's report is quite interesting and unexpected. I suspect that people will continue with their conspiracy theories, though! Elemtilas
- I'm going to prepare this as a formal proposal then. Zahir 19:34, 9 December 2005 (PST)
Brilliant! I love it. :-) Nik 21:57, 10 December 2005 (PST)
- Agreed! All in all, I think the bizarre twist of involving Dianetics and wacko celebrity types is a good IB touch. I took the liberty of providing a link to the old news article (the News archive is a primary source, after all!) and mentioning some of the other conspiracy theories we'd talked about.
- Hopefully, this can be put to rest now! Elemtilas 09:56, 11 December 2005 (PST)
- Pretty much, yeah. That was the idea, after all! Zahir 10:14, 11 December 2005 (PST)
- How can you purchase a whole town? --00:41, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
- It can be done. One way is to do it piecemeal, bit by (presumably large) bit. Another is to purchase everybody's mortgage, which is actually easier. There have been cases of towns putting themselves up for sale (actress Kim Basinger, for example, did indeed purchase a town in just such a way, but later sold it). It really depends on circumstances. Zahir 06:05, 12 July 2006 (PDT)
"Claimed to have learned of some kind of attack on the east coast of North America in this other Earth"... Looks like òne of us (KEITH!!!) forgot to shut off our trans-dimensional portals on thát day! Juan Martin Velez Linares 14:02, 02 Nov 2015 (CDT)
Also, I should note that George Bush Sr.'s implication in the shoddy construction of the WTT suggests that *there* a Bush dìd do 9/11! (Sort of.) Airship fuel can't melt steel beams, ànyone? Juan Martin Velez Linares 14:07, 02 Nov 2015 (CDT)