Talk:Bush
How, exactly did only Jorge and Jaime become sociopaths? BoArthur 19:58, 9 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- Misunderstood by the world, is more like! For James at least. James was in no sense of the word a "sociopath" -- his history in recent years should show that he was a serious reformer in a very corrupt country. He worked his up the ladder through such democratic means as were available. His policies were based on good solid patriotic values, including things like the Monroe Doctrine, Federal Unity and Manifest Destiny. Frankly, while the FK distrusted him for the one, the SR reviled him for the second and no one quite knew what to make of the third one -- I think he must have earned quite a lot of respect for standing up for his relatively weak country in the face of much more powerful enemies who sought to squash him. His story is not quite over with yet -- be on the lookout for an explosion from Philly...
- That would be the Watergap Scandal and his later testimony before the Convention.
- George Jr. started out in the Tejan military, which probably shaped him more than anything else. Once he realised that he could push a few buttons and run the show himself, he was well on the way. Keep in mind also that he started out with "good intentions" -- he was the epitome and acme of the benign dictator. However, while James chose the path of light, George chose the other road and fell prey to all the advantages and temptations his position as dicator of a banana republic could offer him. He quickly fell into the lifestyle of fancy palaces filled with the best artworks and wines, garages filled with motorcars, motorcycles and machines of every sort from only the most exclusive manufactories. His appetites, including his predilection to big and expensive military machines, tanked his country's unstable economy.
- I think your assessment is typical of IB inhabitants on both accounts. You and they are quite right about George -- he was tempted by his country and has Fallen. You and they are quite incorrect about James, because he worked within a Fallen country and managed to keep his values straight. He could not fulfill his purpose, however. I must admit that IB's Americans feel much the same about Young of Louisianne -- he might be on the side of good, but his country is corrupt as Satan's Butt (a dive of a bar in Philadelphia). No one thinks any good will come of him, and it seems as like as not that even if his own days aren't numbered, his policies will not long outlive him... Elemtilas
- And indeed, he was eventually assassinated. It will remain to be seen how much of his legacy survives him.
- However, it's not like Arnoldo Schwarzenegger is an angel either. He brought a coup that disposed of the previous president in AC, and promised to provide reforms such as stopping the war. Much of what he promised was unattainable, and he began to cut funding to many of the social programs that had been in place. He's gained the wrath of teachers, firefighters, and nurses alike, diverting the money towards militarization. Had Tejas not tried a bold and direct invation, with Mejico stepping in, there's little doubt he'd have probably been disposed of by a possible military coup. However, he has always been considered very likeable even by people who hate his policies. His latest blunder was suggesting that after the minefields along the Rio Colorado were cleaned up, to build a defense perimeter in its place. Doobieous
Some Recent Discussion on James Bush
17-NOV-2007
He gave up his NAL citizenship to serve as F-C President.
Actually he didn't, but that's a private matter! :) His American passport is still quite valid and unsurrendered. I agree with you that it seems a bit odd for a head of state of one country to be a dual citizen of another country. I think F-C was ignorant of the fact; either that or they simply assumed that upon becoming a Floridian that you kind of autorenounce any other citizenship(s) you may have. There is no NAL statute or CoN norm that requires him to vacate his American citizenship. Me, I think there's much more to the story than has been as of yet revealed.
By your argument(and their's), he's also a citizen of Cuba
How so? There was no "Cuba" when Mr Bush either lived in F-C as a private citizen or while serving in the government (and there hadn't been a "Cuba" since the 1950s). Mr Bush never resided in Cuba (the palacio presidencial is in Miami and his private residence was outside of St. Augustine), only visited as the needs of officialdom required. Cuba did not reassert its independence until after the coup, when Mr Bush wasn't anything.
who have tried to extradite him, at least once extralegally.
That's their business. As the de facto inheritor of everything that was the F-C, it stands to reason why they might want him. Perhaps in order to start over from scratch; perhaps to stick him in front of a firing squad; perhaps just to keep him quiet; or maybe to have him reveal everything he knows to the _Cuban_ senate, rather than the American parliament.
They have no legal leg to stand on, which is undoubtedly why either the NAL or Oregon would never deport him to Cuba.
18-NOV-2007
I've been thinking, especially seeing as we have a minor
conflict as to "who has the real Mr Bush". I have no
problem with your idea that Mr Bush ended up with the
Oregonians during the invasion, but as I said, he is needed
to explain some things in Philadelphia that only the real
man would know.
Unless he's being imprisoned by Oregon, would you mind if he travelled freely to the NAL for a while? I certainly don't mind if he goes back to Oregon for retirement!
18-NOV-2007
What about the RL British "Princess Sophia Naturalization Act"?
Interesting. It appears that Queen Beatrice of Netherlands could actually be a Brit, according to Wikipedia.
I don't think it would apply here, because Mr Bush is naturally an American citizen on account of his parents' citizenship. He's like any other American born to American parents overseas. Whether or not he is a citizen of the country of his birth (in this case, Tejas) is a matter for that country's laws. I'm not sure what those citizenship laws of Tejas are, but it is certainly possible that he also had Tejan citizenship, since he was born there.
I notice that Mexican law (*here*) provides citizenship for someone who has made a "significant contribution" to Mexico. I would suspect F-C might have had a similar law; and it's entirely possible he simply obtained F-C citizenship in the normal fashion -- either a waiting period of 5 years (or 2 if married to a citizen). He was elected to both the House and the Cortes, made a fortune in business there and, as a true reform minded man, I suspect that there are as of yet unpublished accomplishments that would have secured his identity as well as citizenship as a Floridian of the first order no matter which route he should choose.
He did all of that without ever turning in his American passport.
18-NOV-2007
Oregon has no problem with that (Mr Bush travelling to the NAL to testify before the Convention), and as long as the NAL is willing to accept the outcome of his trial in Oregon and keep him from getting killed/extradited (to Cuba), he'd be willing to go.
If it's not some kind of trumped up kangaroo court, the NAL has no choice but to accept the outcome. They will be interested in a place on the defence team, though. If for no other reason than to establish and defend Mr Bush's NAL citizenship.
As a legally stateless person resident in Oregon,
Is this some kind of weird Oregonian thing? He is already and has always been a citizen of the NAL. Having also valid F-C citizenship at the time of the invasion, he could claim either citizenship in the RTC ZOC of Florida _or_ the NAL, since his place of personal residence (which he still owns, by the way) is in what is now the Province of East Florida.
he should be treated as an Oregonian citizen while in the NAL.
The NAL does recognise such multiple nationalities, and respects his Oregonian citizenship. The NAL simply requests reciprocal respect.
As for the citizenship, I suspect, that he was an NAL citizen by NAL law, but not by F-C law, and a F-C citizen by both laws.
It is probably true that the F-C did not have a dual citizenship law, especially as regards NAL citizens, since the NAL has long been a (very big) thorn in their side. They probably _did_ have a dual citizenship deal with Tejas, the place of Mr Bush's birth and possible / probable citizenship as a youth.
However, F-C law has no bearing on NAL law. So long as an American citizen presents himself at the local post office or courthouse with all the necessary documentation and photographs (and a cheque, cash or postal order for £10/-), his passport is renewed and citizenship documented.
As far as the NAL is concerned, the only way he can actually become NOT an American citizen (apart from being convicted of an act of treason) is to submit a written statement and offer an in person testimony before a provincial magistrate to the effect that you renounce your citizenship for such-and-such a reason. You then turn in your passport and it is physically punch cancelled to invalidate it. Only political nutters who longed for the repression of SNOR era Moskow and overly romantic and disaffected youths who feel that Budapest is the only city where they can express their dramatic raison d' etre do that kind of foolish thing.
as well as a Cuban citizen by Cuban law.
I'm not sure how Oregon arrives at this one, or why they're even concerned about it! For that matter, I'm not even sure how Cuba arrives at this one! If they're pushing for his extradiction and claiming he's a Cuban citizen, I can assure you that the NAL won't be interested in sending him to Havana.
As I said before, he's not committed any crime recognised by NAL law (being the Presidente of a foreign country who has engaged in open warfare with the NAL is not against the law); he is a recognised and legitimate natural citizen of the NAL as well as a naturalised citizen of Oregon; his Floridian citizenship is considered by the NAL to be in abeyance until and unless he should make a claim thereto and any claims by Cuba are considered void.
I'd like to know what he's to be tried for in Oregon, and you can be sure that the NAL will be very interested in a place on the defence team!, but on the whole, I am amenable to your terms.
Jaime's Trial
Has a trial date in Oregon been set for Jaime? Benkarnell 08:24, 28 February 2008 (PST)
Jaime's photo
Dan, do you still have the picture I made of jaime? it was the one you used in your "Bush documentary promo". if yes, could you upload it to illustrate his entry.--Marc Pasquin 18:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
- That's a great question. I have it somewhere. I'll dig around for it, shortly. BoArthur 20:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Jaime and Jorge
Don't they deserve their own articles? BoArthur 19:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- Jorge has Bush Regime. Jaime could get an article if and when somebody wants to sort through the mess that is Florida, which seems to be about Jaime more than the country. Benkarnell 20:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
