Talk:Second Mecklenburg War

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What about the two Schleswig-Holstein Wars?

Both the first and second Mecklenburg wars take place at exactly the same period as the Schleswig-Holstein wars *here*. Does this mean that the Schleswig-Holstein wars never took place *there*? What about the issue of who was to succeed in Schleswig-Holstein when King Frederik VII died? This issue was one of the major causes of the Second war of Schleswig-Holstein *here*. Would this have been resolved differently *there*? My guess would be that Salic Law was repealed in the Duchies, as it was in Scandinavia, by this time. Thus, succession would not have been an issue. However, I get the feeling that Salic Law is not something that can be repealed for member states of the HRE. If so, then the conflict would have extended to Oldenburg. Comments and solutions are welcome.

One more thing: According to the Lybæk page:

"Prussia tries to seize Holstein in 1849 but does not succeed. In 1864, Prussia tries again but only manages to seize the City and the Principality of Lybæk. After GW2, Lybæk is returned to the SR - the Principality becoming a fully integrated part Holstein, and the City as a separate city state of the SR."

I'll be willing to forgo QSS in this case.

Boreanesia 06:21, 15 February 2006 (PST)

Yes, I suppose that succession problem in S-H was solved other way than *here* and was not cause of war with Prussia. Your idea of repealing Salic Law is quite fine with me.

Instead, there were two Wars for Mecklenburgs, which lead to the similar events as S-H wars *here*; they led to Franco-Prussian War and namely absence of Austria in it, also to weaking of Austrian position in HRE.

As for Holstein attack and sizing the Luebeck: oppo to *here*, SR is just too strong for full scale war *there* as in case of S-H Wars, so I chose Mecklenburg, piece which will involve SR, but will be not direct attack on SR. Bismark would not be so mad to provoce the Realm; he rather tried to test it. We just need the similar consequencies in MWs as in S-HWs, but we need Prussia to win slightly (administration of both Mecklenburgs), not to loose badly ;) We may incorporate in MWs, that Luebeck was attacked in both wars, and as a result of 2MW it became part of Prussian Realm. See also, that without Silesia *there* Prussia is less strong, it needs to industrialise other regions, maybe less favourable. SR is a giant and Prussia would be beaten even in 1MW if SR chooses for real war.

What is the most important, that are the outcomes: Austria weakend and pushed aside in HRE and Prussia dominating the HRE. I just tried to conculture them ;) Jan II. 07:44, 15 February 2006 (PST)

Mecklenburg joined to the HRE?

Can you define what you mean by "Mecklenburg was joined to the HRE?"...Joined how? The dukes owed fealty to the Kaiser? Is that what you mean? BoArthur 13:51, 11 May 2006 (PDT)

I do not understand the question. Where it is said, ie. can you give me the citation?

The history of both Mecklenburgs seems to be as follows:

1) 1. MW (M. War) : Ms are still formal members of HRE, but not of SR (both Prussia and SR planned to incorporate them)

2) 2. MW : SR is defeated, M-Sch is commended (no change to ruling Houses, only their sovereignty was limited by Prussian or Austrian administrators) to Prussia, M-Str to ADM.

3) Austro-Prussian W. : Ms are forced to join Norddeutsches Zollverein headed by Prussia.

4) Franco-Prussian W. : Empire is created with Prussian king as emperor. Jan II. 23:49, 14 May 2006 (PDT)

De-Proposalize?

Any objections? Zahir 11:31, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Barring major objections it stands...I would cross-post to conculture. BoArthur 14:54, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

this was waiting for Kristian to say his "yay" but haven't seen him for ages. i would deprop it. Jan II. 23:27, 27 August 2007 (PDT)

That's exactly what I'm going to do. Even if Kristian will object to something afterwards, we can always tweak it to make it work. And if Kristian should say: "Hey, but this is completely impossible, because ...", well, then we can even retract it if necessary. Let's hope that won't be necessary, though. Besides, Kristian knows very well that we can't wait forever. IB as a whole is a work in progress, and so are all articles in this wiki. Depropping an article does not mean that it's "finished". —IJzeren Jan ^Uszkiełtu? 02:57, 28 August 2007 (PDT)

No objections from me as for a possible existance for both wars. But we have to find other motives other than what is stated in these pages.

Danish nationalists *here* were only interested in incorporating Schleswig, which had a Danish majority, into the Kingdom of Denmark, and leave Holstein as a separate Duchy within the Danish Monarchy. However, Prussians objected, pointing to an antiquated law that stated that Schleswig and Holstein will forever be united.

Now, since Mecklenburg does not have a Scandinavian population, I don't see Scandinavia having any interest in incorporating Mecklenburg as part of the SR. Scandinavian nationalism does not come into play here. Also, the Mecklenburg duchies were not ruled by direct relatives of the SR royals, but by their in-laws.

Instead, I propose that the SR was only involved in Mecklenburg in an attempt to maintain status quo, not to annex it. Let's say Prussia attempted to annex the two Mecklenburgs by force, and the SR then intervened.

Boreanesia 23:27, 17 October 2007 (PDT)

good to see you back :) i have re-written both mecklenburg wars according to your proposals, cos i found them logical. Jan II. 00:16, 19 October 2007 (PDT)