Talk:Superhero

I changed first to second world war. I assumed that like here pulp came out in the 20s and the first superheroes in the late 30s.--Marc Pasquin 18:24, 17 October 2005 (PDT)

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The first ever superhero on IB was of course Khoroshij Polkovnik (the Good Colonel).

Khoroshij Polkovnik

(unless this whole thing had only been between me and Jan)

Hey, I like him! Zahir 18:09, 29 Sep 2005 (PDT)

If he is Russian, shouldn't he be wearing a more Russian-style hat? Either a kiwer shako or cap, a papakha, a budionovka, or an ushanka? Boreanesia 18:46, 29 Sep 2005 (PDT)

The hat he is wearing is an early 20th century russian officer`s hat. You can see this style worn by white army members on civil era paiting and photography. some of the other ones mentioned were adopted by soviet era army.

I did try a few other first but they just look weird with a skintight suit.--Marc Pasquin 19:02, 29 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Just to give an idea of the inspiration, I tried to "superheroised" a White Army uniform (since *there* they were the base of SNOR) such as this: [1]

--Marc Pasquin 12:11, 30 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Yay! The Good Colonel is back! Of course the whole thing was between Marc and me, about eight months ago IIRC, but that does change the fact that he exists. The Good Colonel was a snorist icon, invented in the 1930s (was that right, Marc?) as a means to create a SNOR-based popular culture. And not without success, given the popularity he always enjoyed among children and the fact that he somehow maintains himself after the fall of the SNOR. I'd say, it's time for a seperate article about our friend! --IJzeren Jan 22:35, 29 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I agree! Please write one! I'd like to read more about him, and please link it back to this one if you would. Thankee! Zahir 08:04, 30 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I go through my email account and write something up. quick version is that the high level of illeracy in russia at the begining of the 19th century gave the idea to a children`s book editor to try "graphic stories" targeted at teens and young adults. The behind the scene stories is that it parady various phase of US culture (the 1940s two-fisted hero, the red scare of the 1950s, 80s version of GI Joes, etc...) through a SNORist slant.--Marc Pasquin 11:48, 30 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Great! I thought about doing the same, but the Good Colonel is your creation after all, so I guess it's better if you make the first draft. Let's have some fun with him! :) --IJzeren Jan 13:55, 30 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Doc Gabriel

I have an idea for Doc Gabriel, but no time to do it right now. If I could claim him for the time being ...Theophilus88

Who's Doc Gabriel meant to be ? --Marc Pasquin 11:46, 21 October 2005 (PDT)

Bizarro Superman. Just as Vixen is Catwoman, Stingray is Black Manta, Robot Prime is Brainiac and Captain Silver is Sinestro. I was amused by the idea of making villains from DC into the classic heroes in IB. Please, feel free to use 'em as you see fit! Zahir 13:05, 21 October 2005 (PDT)

I'm not going to type it right now, due to access issiues, but my version of Doc Gabriel will include elements of Bizarro Superman, the Hulk, the Thing, and Richard Kimball (the Fugitive). I thought I saw a touch of the Flash in Captain Silver. Does IB have comic relief assistants or heroes? Theophilus88

Sounds good to me! Yeah, Captain Silver has all the "cool" superpowers my roommate listed (he's a huuuuge superhero buff). Vixen had a sidekick for a time, Kit Vixen, but other than that 'tis your decision. Zahir 17:42, 21 October 2005 (PDT)

I wrote up a draft of Doc Gabriel and added features of Swamp Thing and the Spirit as well as everthing else listed above. BTW, kid sidekick and comic relief are not the same thing.Theophilus88

When did horror comics flourish in IB? '70s? '80s? How far behind *here* are the comics trends *there*? 'Doc Gabriel', written in a certain tone, becomes a horror comic (if it isn't one already); written in other styles, it could be a tragedy, a love story, a superscience story, and so on. It seems reasonable to me that if Millennium Comics were to test-run a grittier approach, 'Doc Gabriel' would be the place to do it.Theophilus88

I was imagining that a whole flurry of differernt Superheroes existed as more-or-less recurring characters in anthology comic books through the 1930s and 1940s (rather like the "Golden Age" *here*), but that things changed during the 1950s. One of those changes was that Millennium came to dominate the market and decided sometime in the 1960s to develop specific books for characters and tie them together. They resurrected various "Golden Age" superheroes that seemed to fit the bill and/or generated some new ones. The Big Five took off in a big way and went through various styles through the 60s, 70s and 80s. But then Chicago Comics started a new direction which proved very successful and in the 1990s Millennium "re-invented" their classics (as I indicated with the Stingray article) to make them grittier, darker, more psychologically complex. Methinks Doc Gabriel might easily have been a good beginning for such! Consider how Batman has been portrayed *here* and the possibilities pretty much open up. BTW, I was thinking of doing up a piece about Doc Satan--explaining who he was, and what his powers are, etc. Shall I run that by you first? Zahir 22:09, 26 October 2005 (PDT)

Mystics

Does Millennium Comics not publish mystical heroes? What about science fiction? Western (or the equivalent)? Romance?Theophilus88

They might. Why not? I imagine that if the comics are moving into a more "mature" style, the Alliance for Public Decency would end up in arms about them (again). Zahir 22:09, 26 October 2005 (PDT)

They could have decided to go another way and release a christian friendly imprit "Veritas Comics" with titles such as "Tales of the Crusasers" or "Saint-Georges: Dragonslayer"--Marc Pasquin 05:08, 27 October 2005 (PDT)

Did you know that *here* there is actually a superhero called Bible Man? True! He uses quotes from the Bible to figure his way out of situations. Zahir 07:28, 27 October 2005 (PDT)

I was considering whether Chicago might have an practically unassailable monopoly on magical comics. Therefore Millenium decided to try a different vein. There are certainly enough wonder-working saints and prophets - Elijah and Daniel even have their own sidekicks (Elisha & the Three Young Men, respectively). Moses comes with two sideicks (Aaron & Miriam).Theophilus88

You know, Theophilus, I have a hunch you've stumbled upon maybe the modus operandi or style of an alternate superhero stable that might be created by--or with the support of--the Alliance for Public Decency. Hmmmmmm... Zahir 07:26, 1 November 2005 (PST)

How about this lineup:

1) MacBannai (sic) the BENJAMINITE - An Israelite warrior n the the days of the Book of Judges. The Canaanite dislike MacBannai because he is an Israelite, and the other Israelite dislike him because he is a Benjaminite. 2) The Wise Virgin - basically, an action hero with the personality of Mary Marvel 3) The Staff of Sinai (&Rod) - a demon-slayer with a rod from the burning bush. His sidekick is Rod. Also an anthology title. 4) The Seven Sentinels of Virtue - the APD's answer to other supergroups. Theophilus88 11:01, 7 February 2006 (PST)

Mentor & Captain Silver

Just a head's up. I was going to write something up about Mentor, the Synthetic Man, but if somebody has a better notion than Captain Silver--please feel free! Zahir 22:10, 27 October 2005 (PDT)

Other Comics Genres

What if romance comics were a major item in IB? There are certainly enough wars to inspire tragic tales or inspiring tales such as "Frozen Love: A Free Lithuanian Romance". What about war comics (which might overlap with romance)? Teen humor? History?Theophilus88

Hey, I say "Go for it!" I did imagine Millennium as in some ways the equivalent of DC *here* with Chicago their version of Marvel. Kinda sorta. But don't feel contrained by that! For one thing, you can always create your own publisher! IB's equivalent of Dark Horse Comics, perhaps? Zahir 10:23, 28 October 2005 (PDT)

Actually, DC was the last to cancel their tradition romance comics. My logic is thus: *Here* the war comics were subsumed into superherodom, while the romance comics perished. *There* the war comics market and the romance comics market declined at the same time. Millennium therefore decided to combine them in magazines about soldiers/adventurers and their girlfriends, thereby capturing little boys and their sisters (which is what the female-oriented Superman books were indetended to do). The little boys with a romantic streak and tomboyish girls can buy the same magazine as their same-sex peers and have plausible deniability. Among other things, this means that *there* comic books are for both sexes and therefore more profitable.Theophilus88

"Soldiers in Love", thats going to go bloody great with the League of Decency....--Marc Pasquin 15:35, 28 October 2005 (PDT)

Even if the aforementioned soldiers are of opposite genders? Are all IB militaries all-men? The last bit of the marketing strategy is intended as the publishers' strategic thinking rather than part of the publicity campaign.Theophilus88

Soldiers of *opposite* genders ? Are you saying that these comics are promoting women joining up the military ? just the sort of anti-family spiel that the league of decency oppose I'm sure. --Marc Pasquin 16:30, 29 October 2005 (PDT)

Yeah, that does sound like the kind of thing the Alliance for Public Decency starts snarling about. All the more reason for them to develop their own superhero line--Captain Purity, the Blue Avenger, etc. Zahir 18:11, 29 October 2005 (PDT)

Millenium Planning

A Millenium schematic: Stingray = exotic locale pulp story Vixen = urban locale pulp story Mentor = science fiction (on Earth, as far as I can tell) Doc Gabriel = horror Captain Silver = magic

Does this seem right?Theophilus88

More or less. I was also figuring Mentor should also face mystical villains on a more-or-less regular basis--rather like Superman does/did, as a force he is especially susceptible to. But as regards the overall thrust and timbre of the "Big Five" that makes plenty of sense. Zahir 18:55, 4 November 2005 (PST)

So why does Millennium Comics not feature off-earth outer space stories? Did its designated hero for that sort of story fail?Theophilus88

A proposed publication timeline:

1961 – Vixen begins her adventures in her own magazine and becomes an A-list hero. Stingray begins his adventures in his own magazine and becomes an A-list hero.

1962 – Captain Silver begins his adventures in his own magazine and becomes an A-list hero. Mentor begins his adventures and becomes an A-list hero.

1963 – X begins his adventures in his own magazine and flops.

1964 – X begins his adventures in his own magazine and flops.

1965 – X begins his adventures in his own magazine and flops.

1966 – Doc Gabriel begins his adventures in his own magazine and becomes an A-list hero.

1971 - Vixen, Stingray, Captain Silver, Mentor, and Doc Gabriel form the Legion of Light. Obviously, the three Xs are based on really dumb DC villains.Theophilus88

Heh heh heh. Shall you take one and I'll take the second? (dibbs on Gorilla Grodd!!!!!!) If no one else wants in we can collaborate on the third. Oh, and I was going to write up an article this week about the Coalition of Evil, figuring they got their own 12-issue miniseries in 2002. Zahir 22:00, 4 November 2005 (PST)

In 1964, Millennium Comics attempted a science-fiction hero, the Martian Marvel, set on ancient Mars before it dried out. The Martian Marvel was never a spectacular success. The Martian Marvel was killed off and his book turned into a science-fiction anthology featuring limited series set on different planets. Many of these series happened during the heyday of Ganzar Prime (which was assumed to be many millennia before the present) and were loosely connected.Theophilus88

I like the Martain Marvel. I was also thinking about another superhero team from Millennium--a kind of "Teen Titans" or "Legion of Substitute Heroes." I was figuring Joculatrix and the Green Girl would both be members. Any ideas for a name? Zahir 06:45, 8 November 2005 (PST)

You’re comparing the Teen Titans to the Legion of Substitute Heroes?! Surely you mean the Legion of Super-Heroes.

In a group (pre- or post-re-invention?), presumably Joculatrix would stand in for Mentor and Kit Vixen for Vixen. Captain Silver doesn’t have a sidekick, but I suppose The Hummingbird (powers of Zatanna, personality of Marvel’s Wasp) could stand in for him.

Now, Roots is a mass of mobile swamp vegetation. He might prove useful in a high-pressure environment, but otherwise I don’t see how he could be anything other than the Aquaman of the group. I was imagining that Roots’ exploits were almost exclusively confined to the slough (unless this is like the original Teen Titans, which was apparently almost disconnected from the rest of the DCU). I suppose an alternate version of Doc Satan or Doc Gabriel is possible for the WW/WG vibe. Of course, if the group has a roster/forms after the re-invention, the Green Girl could be a member. But if she is a member, is Lumin also a member?

Please tell me, who stands in for Stingray? He has no sidekick.

Also notice that a team composed of Joculatrix, The Hummingbird, Kit Vixen, and the Green Girl would be all-female (not necessarily bad, although you probably want one male member).Theophilus88

I didn't want to slavishly follow the rule of "sidekicks only." Nor was I thinking of it as a lesser, smaller version of the Legion of Light. Hmmmm. Actually, that and your mentioning it is all female gives me an idea...hmmmm... I'll get back to you. (This is Zahir btw) 69.224.169.57 14:00, 8 November 2005 (PST)

Okay here is the nutshell of my idea. Before Millennium's "re-invention" there was a sometimes-team called the Sisters of Justice composed of Suzanne Dale, The Hummingbird and Kit Vixen. They were rather unofficial but had many storylines one way or another. In the end, the team more-or-less disbanded simply because the editors didn't know what to do with them.

Then, as part of the re-invention, Suzanne Dale was killed and Joculatrix decided to re-form the Sisters to avenge her. By now Kit Vixen had formed her own identity (rather like Robin becoming Nightwing). The Green Girl and/or Lumin would be members as well as another character I have in mind--a teenaged girl who adored superheroes and got in waaaayyyy over her head. She ended up with superpowers but in a very painful way, and will have some serious issues. This new incarnation of the Sisters of Justice is more akin to a vigilante team or street gang, and their foes are the outre minions of Millennium City's most untouchable crime lords (including one you might like named Gargoyle McQueen). Think Daredevil + Dick Tracy + The Dark Knight.

What do you think? Would Green Girl and/or Lumin be right for something like this? Zahir 21:58, 8 November 2005 (PST)

I assume the division of labor for the original team-up is mechanics/magic/muscle?

The Green Girl is fine for the second group - she's less attached (in the physical sense) to Monday Slough. Lumin is male (and not gay), making the idea of "Sisters of Justice" problematic. I suppose he could be an associate. I was thinking of Lumin as the male eye-candy of the group (like Nightwing). The Green Girl is already attracted to his ambient light; Joculatrix and the ex-Kit Vixen wouldn't be put off by a strange skin color. Any actual intrcourse, however, would led to "trouble" in the present of the Green Girl's fertility powers.Theophilus88

Questions

Are there any Archie Andrews-like publications? How many pages are the new glossy Millennium Comics?

I don't see any reason why not. As for length, I would presume they are approximately the same length as those here. Zahir 11:25, 14 January 2006 (PST)