Talk:Aquanishuonigy

There's an historical figure from *here* I thought might well have something to do with this province. His name was White Eyes and here are some links: http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=407 and http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/nativeamericans/whiteeyes.htm Zahir 00:08, 14 December 2005 (PST)

Hmm ... sounds good. It's too late right now for me to think about how to integrate him, but I'll give it another look tomorrow! Nik 00:11, 14 December 2005 (PST)

Capital

I've refered a few times to "Onondaga City" as the hypothetical capital of Aquanishuonigy. Any opinions? Steg. Boroparkpyro 11:51, 14 December 2005 (PST)

What is the origin of the name? BTW, I would like to point out that--according to what I learned doing an outdoor drama in Ohio nearly twenty years ago--there was a concerted effort by the Moravian Church to help the Native Tribes (especially the Delaware or Lani Lanape) to learn what we would call European Technology. To be sure, this was part of missionary work, but in the process two "Native Convert" towns were founded during the American Revolution--Shoenbrun and Gnaddenhooten (not sure about the spelling of those two). Something to consider... Zahir 13:15, 14 December 2005 (PST)

I can't remember if that was a name that I came up with or if it was a name that was pre-existing, but I think that I picked that name because it's a famous indian from that area. it's supposed to be cleveland *here*. BoArthur 13:54, 14 December 2005 (PST)

Okay I'd just like to repeat my strong support/insistence ;-) on preserving the capital as Onondaga City in the "homeland", i.e. Syracuse. Would it be an acceptable compromise with the "new lands" position if we had the official capital be Onondaga City = Syracuse, but have the largest, most influential city be New Onondaga City = Columbus(?) out west? This would be like the Albany/NYC dichotomy in New York *here*. Steg, a.k.a. Boroparkpyro 02:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Six Nations = NAL?

Is the NAL based on the Iroquois constitution? Is this why the Floridas went first to the council fire? I suppose this would best be answered by Padraic or another person that has dealt with the NAL, but your help on this would be greatly appreciated. BoArthur 00:14, 14 December 2005 (PST)

From what i remember, i believe the "everyone approaching the Council Fire first" thing is mostly just a formal/ritual gesture, not anything with official status. Steg Boroparkpyro 11:51, 14 December 2005 (PST)

Yes, but how did that custom start? I seem to remember it being stated that, from the natives' perspective, at least, the NAL was effectively an extension of their own confederacy Nik 12:31, 14 December 2005 (PST)

It's a weird constitutional situation. From the start, the entity that would become the NAL was seen as an extension of the Six Nations; yet it is also true that the Six Nations is one of the provinces of the NAL. At the start, it was a system that worked well enough for both sides; though it has evolved in the intervening 200 years. (You know what? it just strikes me that we never mentioned the NAL's bicentennial in the News two years back!!) The custom of new provinces presenting their cases before the Council Fire is old and stems from the early days. In a sense, it is a formal and ritualistic gesture, but in another sense, it is not done for show or as a patronising tip of the tricorn to the Natives. Remember how long it took Nunavik to prepare itself and get all its infrastructure in place before seeking provincehood? I suspect that one or more voices on Six Nation's Council expressed some doubts that Nunavik could make it without excessive reliance on the Federal government for a dole. Elemtilas 10:47, 15 December 2005 (PST)

Other Tribes

Shouldn't the Wenro, Susquehanna and Eire tribes also be included, as the Province covers their territories too. See here: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/early_indian_east for reasons. --Sikulu 06:55, 17 January 2006 (PST)

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "included". The NAL is a democratic country, and AQ is a province governed democratically. The other tribes are "included" in that the people that live in western AQ all go to their appointed polling places to cast votes for such candidates are running for office at the provincial level. The Six Nations / Grand Council and all that should nòt be understood as an exclusive body. It is not just people of Onondaga or Seneca descent that the Council answers to, nor are they the only people who benefit from the Council. There are certainly other tribes as you say, but also plenty of Newcommers (European descent Americans, not to mention more recent immigrants from around the world) that live there.

In other words, there is no reason why there can't have been an Iroquois speaking woman who immigrated to the NAL from Australasia 20 years ago and now holds a seat on the Council.

These provinces aren't "Indian Only", any more than Ter Mair is "European Only". It should also be understood that the Natives are a minority. They're about 3% of the US population -- even in the best of all possible outcomes (and I'ld like to think that the NAL of IB is a better outcome) I don't see how Natives could exceed ten or twenty percent of the total NAL population. Elemtilas 08:15, 17 January 2006 (PST)

I would think that, in modern times, the tribal territories are little more than geographic divisions. Natives might even be a minority even within the Six Nations. Nik 18:04, 17 January 2006 (PST)

I agree, which is why I wrote what I wrote. Though, it must be said that you distilled it down to a very neatly said sentence.

What I meant was, why those tribal territories aren't lised as subdivisions of the Six Nations? Especially since the territory of Susquehanna or Eire tribes are easily as large as the entire territory of the Six Nations put together. Sikulu 02:47, 18 January 2006 (PST)

Wenro, Susquehanna and Eire weren't part of the original Five or later Six nations confederacy. Seneca, Ondondaga, Oneida, Cayuga, Mohawks, & Tuscarora were the original six (the Tuscarora comming in later). Presumably the Erie and Wenro joined up (or were annexed) shortly thereafter, but before the late 1700s. That two of them (Mohawk and Oneida) ended up in N.C. is a mere historical accident. So it seems the answer to the question must be "it's tradition".

Re Susquehana: it is almost entirely part of Pennsylvaania and wasn't one of the original Six; only about 1/3 of Erie territory is part of AQ, and I suppose it was in some way acquired by the Confederacy in the pre-League years. The rest is in other provinces.

And for Nik, perhaps the (known) tribal territories could be worked in as the modern ridings of AQ? Elemtilas 09:08, 18 January 2006 (PST)

Koine Iroquois

Any objections to asserting that Koine Iroquois (the creolized descendent of what was originally a Five/Six Nations pidgin made of diverse influences from Native AQ languages/dialects as well as Newcommer vocabulary) as the official lingua franca of AQ is having the unintended effect of competing its "parent languages" out of existence, such that the younger generation on the whole only speaks Koine, and the AQ government is now putting into effect language reclamation projects in education and popular media in an attempt to keep the original languages alive?

Boroparkpyro 19:27, 19 August 2012 (PDT)

That seems like a pretty normal linguistic process. Especially in the cities, where you would naturally have people from the different nations, plus various French, Brithenig, and English speakers, coming together and marrying and raising kids who would probably know the Koine as a first language. On the other hand, a general trend in IB is a higher level of bilingualism/diglossia than *here* and I'd expect that in the towns and villages located near the centers of each language area, the "parent languages" are still quite healthy. Benkarnell 08:25, 20 August 2012 (PDT)