Talk:San Francisco

A bit of background here:

I've recreated San Francisco *there* very much like here, except a few date changes (it never had any major historical events that would affect the outside world, except the finding of gold and then the quake of 1906, but the only thing that had to stay the same was the quake (of course). For the gold rush, it was the government that found it, created San Francisco as a port since the nation could now afford to build one, and then the subsequent treaty and opening of Japan which helped bring in Immigrants. *Here*, it is the Chinese which make up 1/3 the city population, but there, since the Japanese were allowed mining deals, they settled primarily in San Françisco first. This allows *here's* Chinese population to be replaced with *there's* Japanese population. I'm planning to add in information about Nihonmatxi later (Here's Nihonmachi is a small area and not nearly as bustling as here's Chinatown in San Francisco is). I also would like to add in a Little Manila, since I see no reason why Filipinos might not want to settle *there*, unless Kristian can give me a good reason.

I had at first thought the city wouldn't burn in the 1906 quake, but I didn't see how that couldn't happen with the violence of the quake and the way people cooked and heated their homes back then. They still would be using wood burning stoves or fireplaces, and in a city there's no room to have an outdoor cooking area with apartment buildings anyway. The fire I've referenced in the article is based off of the 1851 fire which destroyed more of San Francisco than did the fire of 1906. -- Doobieous

Nice to see my hometown in IB! Thanks! Given what I've read of Montrei, and what I know of San Francisco *here* might I suggest that the city end up having something like artistic expatriot neighborhood? Somewhere movie stars and artists and writers and the like might have homes? Rather akin to Paris in the 1920s. Maybe it'd be an Anglo Quarter where writers like Tinisi <sp?> Williams and Anne Rice would go to party and hear gossip about each others' muses? Just a suggestion. Zahir 21:00, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Actually, your suggestion woudln't be too far out of the ordinary since I have already established Montréi as a sort of vacation spot along the west coast (Different from the rather poor nation of AC). Also, the Capital of Montréi is rather conservative being the center of government, but like here, San Françisco is rather liberal in attitude (Montreianos tend to be less conservative than either the Californios or the Tejanos anyway). I want to add in other neighborhoods to the city, since being a port and having more opportunities, there would be an incentive to draw in immigrants.

Immigrant groups that I know are definitely there: Japanese, Various Chinese (who came for fishing opportunities), French (or maybe Louisiannais?), Castellano speakers, Russians (who would've come during the fur trade era and when Meidji-dò was Russian). I imagine there's also possibly English speakers from the NAL there, and maybe a small group of Helvetians (Since Sutter DID try to create a "New Helvetia" *here*).

I basically want Montréi to be fairly diverse int he urban centers since It wouldn't be realistic to have a huge mono-culture anyway. -- Doobieous

Le Voisinage

You know that "La Blanchisserie Française" comes out meaning something like "The French Laundromat" or something... BoArthur

Well, Admittedly, I know no French, so, I picked the word that demon I love to hate, babelfish gave. The inspiration is a restaurant called "The French Laundry" up in Yountville (which *there* would be in a rural backwoods area, not really a snazzy trendy destination like the Napa area is here. SHould it be more properly "La Laverie Française"? -- Doobieous

You should have asked, Barry! ;) As for the name, I like La Blanchisserie Française much better. And who said a restaurant must declare itself as one? I quite like it and vote it should stay, as I'm sure the owners are Louisiannan descended (thus my vote is the only one that counts! ::evil laugh::). BoArthur

Well, there we go, La Blanchisserie Française will stay :). I agree with restaurants, plenty of them in our world have quirky names, why shouldn't it be the same *there*? The owners are probably Louisiannan descended since I'm sure fur trappers would've come over to Montréi to hunt originally. I imagine on top of the "traditional" French fare, there's Louisiannan dishes on the menu. The French Laundry *here* is considered top notch, and you really do have to get reservations in about a year in advance. People I know who've been say it was all they expected and more! -- Doobieous

Bridges

It seems to me a bit unrealistic for either the Golden Gate or the Bay Bridge to not exist *here*. I researched the history of both Sausalito and Oakland, and considering both have been around since the time of the Gold Rush, I'd assume that at least one of those communities would have grown to a size warranting a bridge. Also, both bridges have been planned since the early 1900s; it seems unlikely that so much time would have passed without at least one of them being built by the 21st century. So personally, I think if not both bridges, then at least the Bay Bridge should be built. Perhaps *there* it could look like the Golden Gate? Juan Martin Velez Linares 22:15 August 7 2015 (PDT)

Montrei is much more rural than *here*. From all I've ever discussed with Barry/Doobieous, Montrei was very sparsely populated - think Mission Era levels - even today. I'd say that since they didn't have the Gold Rush *there* (IIRC) then they wouldn't have reached 1900's populations until just about now, in the present. They might be discussing a bridge, but with rail and airship travel being much more the norm *there*, I think that it would be more likely that they would do something akin to what was done for BART *here*. BoArthur 10:36, 11 August 2015 (PDT)

I see your point, but IIRC there wás a Gold Rush, although from what I understand the mining deals with Japan ended up probably taking away a lót of what would have *here* been Anglo mining claims. Although, re-looking at the history of Oakland, a lot of the reason it grew as big as it did was because of the transcontinental railroad, which probably would have been a little hard to build there, seeing as how there would have been 5 nations involved and all! So, probably no Bay Bridge. I should note, however, that even today the city of Sausalito (AKA the reason the Golden Gate Bridge was built in the first place) is TINY, and back then it was even smaller (heck, the entire North Bay area was essentially backwater). A lot of the reason the area even became the upscale suburbs of San Francisco that it is today was in fact the bridge. Perhaps *there* the Montreianos built the Golden Gate to allow for increased growth in San Françisco? Or did they just not bother with what was essentially a bridge to nówhere? Juan Martin Velez Linares 21:00, 11 August 2015 (CDT)

I doubt they were the trading hub that San Fran was/is here. I think that the shoals of the Golden Gate were difficult to navigate, and with no Trans-Continental Railway, no need for a major western port, there was no push for the city to grow. The NAL focused on its north to south growth, Louisianne was too busy playing all sides to maintain their autonomy, and Tejas and Alta California were too busy slinging rockets and bullets at each other. To be honest, I'm really surprised that Barry made it such a large city, given the largely back-water status of Montrei. My understanding of Montrei is that it's much like today's Portugal -- largely irrelevant on the international stage, but a nice place to visit, if you have reason. BoArthur 11:15, 18 August 2015 (PDT)

Well, Lisbon isn't exactly anything to sneeze at. I don't see why San Françisco would be. Also, countries like Australia *here* are largely backwater, and yet still have quite a few major cities/metro areas! Why should Montrei be any different? Also, the Transcontinental Railroad never actually reached San Francisco *here*, and was/is really more important to the growth of Sacramento and Oakland than to that of SF. In addition, it was built to link San Francisco to the east áfter it became a major port, not before.Juan Martin Velez Linares 18:33, 18 August 2015 (CDT)

Part of what drove the growth in California, post-gold rush was the water brought into the Central Valley, and the water projects that happened *here* most certainly didn't happen *there*. I'm not sure what sort of exports happen from California, but I think that if they're exporting anything, it's going to be rice from the American River Watershed. All the farms in the Central Valley, are probably the ranches of the local Dons, and likely not much more. BoArthur 08:13, 20 August 2015 (PDT)

After reading up more on the subject, I have realised that San Francisco *does* indeed owe a good deal of its growth to the Transcontinental Railroad, and therefore probably wouldn't have quite reached the size it did *here* (although I suppose still quite sizeable). So, you are right in that there are probably no bridges in the Bay Area for the simple reason that the population outside San Francisco and San Jose probably wouldn't be very much. My apologies if I came across as overly bellicose, I did in no means want to appear in such a way but I am aware that I may have been insensitive to previously established canon (QSS). I hope I can continue to flesh out the San Francisco area, with care to QSS of course! Juan Martin Velez Linares 10:29, 25 August 2015 (CDT)

No worries -- one of my roles within our Merrye Bande is to be a voice of caution, espeically when it comes to QSS. And I know you're new to Andrew's Sandbox, and I figured you were getting your sea-legs as well as a good feel of the flow. And, for what it's worth, I didn't feel you were being bellicose -- rather you had a good idea in mind, and would like to see it come to fruitiion. I just wanted to make sure that we're matching good old QSS.

Now - an idea I'll share with you. IF you still feel there should be trans-bay connections, might it not be more cost-effective to create tunnels like *here*'s BART, rather than go to the trouble of building a bridge? I would imagine that the costs of building the tunnels are much less than building a huge bridge...and remember, Yerba Buena isn't very large and Treasure Island doesn't exist because there was no WWII build up nor was there a World Fair to cause its creation. BoArthur 09:07, 25 August 2015 (PDT)

I think there'd probably be a tunnel, however I imagine that it would probably carry a BART-type system rather than automobile traffic, seeing as how Montrei seems heavily dependent on train travel. Car and mainline railroad traffic to the East and North Bay *there* would probably be routed through the ferry terminal still, although perhaps as Alameia begins to grow Montrei has been considering adding extra tubes to the Transbay tunnels for highways and/or Eu Pacifico Austrau.

On a side note, does SF have all that Victorian architecture *there*? To be honest, it seems to me like too American a style to become very common in Montrei. Perhaps Monterey Colonial and Japanese architecture replace it *there*? The Western Addition (the part of San Francisco famous for Victorian architecture) used to have a huge Japanese population (heck, that's where Nihonmatxi is still located!), so perhaps instead of Victorian homes we have the Japanese/Corean-influenced Montreiano Colonial architecture mentioned in the Montrei architecture article, or even outright Japanese homes? Juan Martin Velez Linares 10:29 AM, 26 August 2015 (CDT)

Yes to both ideas, I say. Not that you need my vote. But I think that we could have a very japanese slant to the country, and yes, not likely to have the strong Victorian influence, since there weren't anglos in high number. Maybe some blend of the Hacienda style with Japanese and Corean types - like San Fransokyo in Big Hero 6? (but again - not Victorian, but the Hacienda style.) BoArthur 09:21, 26 August 2015 (PDT)

To be honest, I wàs thinking something like San Fransokyo! (Obviously not Victorian of course, but Spanish--er, Castilian Colonial/Montrei Colonial should do the job just fine) Juan Martin Velez Linares 23:11, 26 August 2015 (CDT)

Transbay Transit

Could I start working on the transportation system of the grand city of San Françisco? I kind of want to write out what happened to the Southern Pacific/Key System *there*, the somewhat bigger transportation network and how the Transbay ferries and BART (or, I'd imagine, TRAB in Montreiano) work *there*. Juan Martin Velez Linares 23:13, 26 August 2015 (CDT)

2016 Drought

How did Montrei *there* handle the drought *here*? Theophilus88 5 April 2017