Talk:Xliponian

IPA transcription?

Wouldn't it be a good idea to use IPA symbols rather than "English" respellings like 'kh' and 'sh' (which IMHO are horrible -- you just can't win with the Roman alphabet!) I'm willing to help fix them if desired. [ BPJ 01:31, 9 May 2005 (PDT)]

Done! Kyrmse 04:39, 13 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Latin ae and oe.

You say 'Latin ae and oe became ai and oi respectively.' In other words they didn't change, but retained their classical value?

That is right. The spelling did change to reflect actual classical pronunciation - but this is in fact a modern phenomenon, since formerly the spelling was far more chaotic than modern orthography. Kyrmse 04:41, 13 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Diphthongization a Jovian-Xliponian isogloss! :-)

Another characteristic aspect of Xliponian phonology is diphthongisation. The main vowel of the original Latin word becomes affected by that of the ending,

In other words a Jovian-Xliponian isogloss! :-) BPJ 03:51, 12 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Goes to show that some linguistic phenomena are universal, or at least widespread - even in conlangs... Kyrmse 05:22, 12 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Heh, interesting. Though in Jovian the Latin endings schwa-ify early in history, thus losing any flavor that could pass on to other syllables. In words like DULCIS -> duege [dy@g] the umlauting i is arguably part of the Latin stem rather than the ending. However, this umlauting/diphthongization is extremely common in non-final syllables in Jovian, e.g. CARMINA -> caerma [kErm], ATRIUM -> aedrun ['ajdr@].

In Xliponian those same words became tuilh /tujlx/, harmeni /har'meni/ and açir /a'tsir/. You have to consider the consonantal Lautverschiebung in addition to the vowel transformations... Kyrmse 06:08, 12 Jul 2005 (PDT)
[Took me long enough to get this reply right...]

Xliponia, Greek Proximity and Orthography

Would Xliponia use the greek alphabet rather than the roman alphabet, due in part to the long "colonization" of the greeks? (Or am I remembering incorrectly?)

Is the only reason that Xliponian is in the Roman alphabet because that is the alphabet that you're the most comfortable with? Granted, I'm not saying that you should redo everything, but I think that it would be interesting to note on the page that Xliponia actually uses the greek alphabet (if that's the case). I've got an IB newsbrief pending that I would need to know this in order to post it. Let me know! BoArthur 06:47, 23 Jul 2005 (PDT)

No, Xliponian ís - and always has been (though with varying orthographies) - written in the Latin alphabet. We owe that to the Roman colonisers. It is true that the language máy be written using the Greek alphabet, but this is rather unwieldy, such as by having no satisfactory notation for the sh (and tsh) sound, and to a lesser degree for the h sound (as opposed to x). While, for instance, money bills from the early 20th century showed Greek script (and Cyrillic, and Fraktur, and Hebrew, and Arabic), this was done for the benefit of minorities in the Xliponian territory. The Greeks, true, were a sizable minority. But Latin script it is. Kyrmse 16:59, 24 Jul 2005 (PDT)

This leads to the question if the orthography always was the present almost phonemic one. It looks like the result of a conscious reform, especially the use of q for /tʃ/, the use of c for /k/ in all positions and ç for /ts/ in all positions. One would expect that something more in line with Italian/Old Spanish/Portuguese and/or French, e.g. with ch for /tʃ/, c alternately /k/ or /ts/ depending on context etc, or something that wholly disguises the characteristic Latin-to-Xliponian sound changes! :-) BPJ 11:19, 26 Jul 2005 (PDT)

OXl (Old Xliponian) texts bear out your suspicions, only I haven't had the time to publish them! Note in passing thet the name Mapukra uses a k (it's in the dialect of Meirç). Kyrmse 11:33, 26 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Etymology of "Xliponia"

BTW, what is the etymology of Xliponia? BPJ 10:47, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Quoting from Xliponian history:

"In the year 40 BCE, with the division of the Roman Empire, the region now known as Xliponia fell under the rule of Antonius as part of the province of Macedonia. The principal settlement there was called Colonia Argentea Plebeia on account of the plentiful silver mines in the region. From Plebeia comes the root Xlip- of the country's modern name."

As you know (see this article), "The /ʃ/ sound – written x – derives mainly from the Latin word-initial clusters /kl/, /fl/, /pl/, which became /ʃl/"

Kyrmse 12:32, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)

I get a box, but a similar series of (abortive) sound changes was operational in Kerno as well. You can still see many examples of word initial ll- that derived from pl-, cl-, etc. At some time in the last few centuries, the pendulum began swinging towards widespread "Brithenigification". The process resulted in people pronouncing the words in a more "classical" fashion, but still spelling quite a few of them with the outmoded ll-.

Is the box supposed to represent [S] (English ship or Argentinian llamar) or [x] (Scots loch)? Elemtilas

The box represents & # 6 4 3 ; - an "esh" or [S], that is, the sound in ship. Kyrmse 13:59, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Ah I see. Well then, similar series of change though with different resulting phoneme. Elemtilas

Essentialist Definition

Some people have been overheard to say that

Xliponian is essentially Vulgar Latin without case endings and with Etruscan consonants.

Of course, like all such definitions, it is not true. But a good description. Kyrmse 04:41, 14 November 2005 (PST)

A Vocabulary

A "Working Vocabulary" has been uploaded to the IB files. It is - as the name implies - a work in progress, which I will add to as time goes by. What's the IB equivalent of Casablanca?! Kyrmse 02:30, 28 November 2006 (PST)