Talk:Florida War

Expand the article?

Could we flesh this out some? Expand it so we get Jaime's POV, or at least someone who knew the mechanics of what went on inside Florida-Caribbea? BoArthur

Allright, I'll look into this... Elemtilas 18:01, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Padraic, what do you think of restoring the article and linking to "Jaime's version" for the great comments you've added? BoArthur 10:53, 15 March 2006 (PST)

Conch Republic?

Well, I know I don't talk much (actually, hardly at all!), but I was thinking about the current sitution in the European Zone *there* when a few freinds of mine brought up the Conch Republic. *Here*, Key West declared themselves a nation in 1982 after US Border Patrol set up road blocks and started searching cars for illegal immigrants. While it only lasted one day here (They declared independence, then declared war on the US, surrendering after one minute), maybe the European Zone could be made it's own nation? Maybe not call it the Conch Republic, but it is only an idea. Seth

I know that Jan van Steenbergen has been working up some material relating to South Florida; I could see the Keys possibly setting themselves up as a sovereign region and trying to join the Caribbean League. I think if you wanted to write up an article proposal to that effect, it could be some fun! I would say to write up something similar to the information in the wikipedia article I linked to. I think it could make things interesting. :) BoArthur 15:47, 14 March 2006 (PST)

I agree that wòuld be fun! Elemtilas 18:00, 14 March 2006 (PST)

I'm not so sure about that. The Conch Republic *here* was more of a publicity gimick than a serious secessionist state. At most, I could see them possibly agitating to become part of Cuba rather than whatever state(s) is/are formed from Occupied Southern Florida Nik 16:06, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of the European Zone and the Florida keys becoming one nation, not just the Florida Keys. But maybe I'll toy with it and write that article! Seth 16:12, 14 March 2006 (PST)

This is most likely what will end up happening, if the place doesn't fall to anarchy. We haven't had much news out of Florida, but dissent and violence still mar the RTC Zone -- folks there are vèry unhappy about the Europeans' actions in Florida. Elemtilas 18:00, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Ah, well, that makes more sense, and I believe that's the plan as it is. The Keys are already part of the Eurozone. At any rate, I doubt there would've been an equivalent of the Conch Republic *there*, as FC's government doesn't strike me as one that would be very tolerant of even a symbolic secession Nik 16:14, 14 March 2006 (PST)

But Nik, you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that the Conch Republic came to be during the F-C régime. I'm suggesting rather that they are a recent innovation, having worked with the Irish and become their own sovereign entity that later petitions for membership in the Caribbean League. That's what _I_ had in mind.BoArthur 16:19, 14 March 2006 (PST)

I don't think the CaL would go for that at all. Wáy too much baggage in southern Florida -- anti American hatred, anti British / Commonwealth hatred, anti European imperialist hatred, residual anti Caribbean snobbery (and the Caribbean is almost all Commonwealth anyway, and the rest of it's European empire left-overs) -- for the not even declared CaL to want to take that lot on. Even the NAL has refused any suggestion that southern Florida be made into an NAL territory of some sort. Elemtilas 18:00, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Yes, but I was responding to Seth's comment. At any rate, I see even less reason for the Keys to want independence under Irish rule than under FC rule. Nik 16:24, 14 March 2006 (PST)

At the same time, I would think that the Keys were relatively untouched by the war and invasions, and they would still be quite touristy, and might have been encouraged by the Irish to make their own country because they reason that a subdivided Florida, like China will be less of a bother if they're diced up into a large number of itty-bitty statelets. That's what _I_ would think. BoArthur

An interesting idea. Something to think about anyway. Elemtilas 18:00, 14 March 2006 (PST)

The Irish attitude would be that the disintegration of South Floria is to be avoided. What I think is most likely is that they would be given almost complete autonomy within the Irish Zone, a kind of de facto independence on condition that they did not formally cede from South Florida, shared some instruments of government (such as money, foreign affairs and defence) with South Florida.

The ongoing Irish effort has been to make the various Distritos self-governing and economically viable. I think the complete secession of the Conch Republic might cause some nasty political problems. That's not to say I'm against the idea, just that it could cause problems.

One other note: the old peso is now largely worthless, and I believe that, at least in the Irish zone, the currencies in use are the NAL Pound and the Irish Líre as well as a scrip that can be exchanged for both under certain conditions. Not so sure about the RTC zone, though. --Kgaughan 10:20, 15 March 2006 (PST)

No Division of South Florida?

Keith, could you further explain the Irish views on South Florida? Why wouldn't they want it to somewhat balkanize? China's slept quite well since 1950... BoArthur 10:51, 15 March 2006 (PST)

As you noted in the South Florida article, the HRE (or even Ireland itself, though the situation there is nowhere near as extreme as the HRE) is a good model of how Ireland wants Florida to end up: a single state with strong regional government and a small federal government whose sole purpose is to look out for the common good of the whole state, one acting as a counterbalance to the other. Balkanisation is also anathema because the population is mostly culturally homogenous, a complete break-up would antagonise the population, and swathes of the country would have great difficulty surviving as independent states. There's just no need for it. Strong federalism is a better, less invasive solution.

Of course, if the Floridians themselves at some later point decide to dissolve that union, that's their choice. --Kgaughan 13:30, 15 March 2006 (PST)

I thought I was right smart to come up with that analogy. Are you saying the situation of South Florida is not as bad as the HRE, or Ireland is not as bad as the HRE, or both? Will we have articles showing up in the near future about other "Repùblicas"? BoArthur 15:40, 15 March 2006 (PST)

Both. Ireland (and South Florida too eventually, or at least that's the hope) is pretty decentralised, though there is a relatively strong central government. I'd say there's a good chance of a number of further "Repùblicas", but that all depends, I think, on what direction the rest of Florida takes. --Kgaughan 16:44, 15 March 2006 (PST)

Nuclear Weapons

This is a very good article, I like the unusual format, but one thing has me a bit puzzled. Florida has nukes, apparently developed during the Bush presidency, and he seems to confirm their deterant purpose. So why were they kep a secret? None of the Coalition members apparently knew anything about a Floridian nuclear arsenal. If they had, the SR might not have been quite as beligerant (although, being something of a Power, I suppose the SR would have a lot more RAWs at its disposable than the FC). My best guess is that since there were only two employed, Bush wanted to keep his weapons a secret until he had implemented the Plan and secured his reputation as peaceful reforming Mr. Nice Guy. But even then, he might have unveiled his capability as the Cruzan crisis mounted.

What do the folks in charge have to say on this matter?

Schlock Junkie 19:38 9th August 2007

Better late than never ... But now the story can be told! The fact of the matter is that the atomic (not really nuclear) weapons systems in question were rather questionably obtained from the HRE some time during GWII. Obviously this was long before Mr Bush took over in Florida. There are some (conspiracy nuts, some have called them) who fervently believed that F-C was planning on entering the war on the side of the HRE, perhaps with the intent of aggrandising their territory on the mainland. Perhaps by taking parts of Mexico or Central America. There are (or were -- it's no longer entirely clear) documents detailing both an alliance with the HRE and also the HRE's plan to seize Tejas. Perhaps by stationing in F-C some atomic weapons packed into V3 rockets aimed at Philadelphia and other major cities, the HRE hoped to either compel the NAL to not interfere in Tejas or better still, to withdraw from the war altogether. One record indicated that the HRE was planning on stationing at least a dozen such superrockets in Cuba and several dozen conventional V2 and V3 rocket stations around the F-C.

One problem with the scenario is there is no record of any kind of official passage of a treaty or alliance between the F-C and the HRE. Leastways not in F-C archives. We know that at least six V3 atomic rockets were delivered to the F-C and that four were installed in various locations in Cuba. The wherabouts of the other two remain unknown. We also know that at least six conventional V2s and four conventional V3s were delivered -- but the whereabouts of these reamain unknown. Many soldiers stationed at San Juan aver that the rockets were delivered there, and indeed there are pictures of proud servicemen posing before the new weapons. What happened to them in the last days of the war is not so well known. They mysteriously disappeared, it would seem. Clearly, as GWII ground to kind of stalemate and then a sort of loss for the HRE, the last thing F-C wanted to become known was its plan to ally with the enemy of the NAL. Especially given that F-C had its own designs on aggrandising itself at the expense of the NAL and the FK in the region!

The 50s and 60s and 70s pass and the superweapons seem to lie forgotten. Enter Bush... Somehow or another, Mr Bush caught wind of these atomic weapons and ordered the Air Force to develop a refurbishment and duplication programme. We now know that during his tenure, a total of eight (new) V3 rockets were constructed, and we know that several more were built and tested more-or-less successfully. The F-C was never able to obtain weapons grade atomic mechanisms, however, so Mr Bush had to content himself with the two old German systems that had been mothballed some 50 years previous. Only one of the weapons was fully functional. The other still contained fissile material but lacked a functioning delivery system. Clearly, the Charlotte Amalie bomb was delivered via missile, while the Lousianna bomb was some kind of "dirty bomb" that more or less had to be delivered personally.

Lastly, we know that two atomic weapons were used by F-C during its rather short war with the Allied forces. I think the begged question is obvious: who has the other four atomic weapons? And, where are all the conventional missiles, including the new ones? No atomic weapons or rocket systems were ever located by Federated forces in any of their own colonies and territories. The mainland was blitzed and utterly devastated by the SR, and they didn't find anything. (And, the RTC has been bumbling and poking around there since the SR left, and neither they nor the Irish ever found anything. The FK never found anything in Cuba either. Though of course, they never occupied Cuba, only provided aid and consultancy in rebuilding. Elemtilas 19:59, 25 August 2011 (PDT)