Talk:Ecotopism

Don't know if anyone here has actually read the book Ecotopia but I have. Long time ago, to be sure, but some of the details are still rattling around in my head. And one of the premises of the society proposed in it was not simply that the environment comes first, but that the full price of anything be considered. For example, sodas seem harmless enough and the cost of producing the stuff is very cheap indeed. Think of how many folks make a living from the manufacture and sale of sodas! Plus the very real fact that people like soda! Now--think of the dentists' bills. How many cavities, crowns, root canals, dentures and case of pyrohea can be attributed to soda? Then get into the increased incidence of diabetes (which in IB is much more serious because I don't think human insulin can be produced yet). On the basis of that outlook, an Ecotopian society would tax soda very, very hightly indeed. Imagine if a can of 7-Up cost seven dollars! The same would apply to things like tobacco, nuclear power, the internal combustion engine, plastics, etc. Anyway, that was what I rememberd from the book. Zahir 16:51, 2 February 2006 (PST)

For the record, I really like the fact some folks like Sikulu and Bo have gotten around to actually formulating what this movement is all about. Zahir 21:28, 7 February 2006 (PST)

*bows politely* Thanks. I appreciate it. It was quite interesting to come up with something that doesn't exist *here*. BoArthur 22:14, 7 February 2006 (PST)

Yes. Just imagine an Ecotopic movement taking power in the US. (Never going to happen, I know, but we can all dream can't we.) --Sikulu 00:20, 8 February 2006 (PST)

As an aside, what are the Ecotopic movements like in the countries mentioned in the article. Thats the main reason why I included them. --Sikulu 00:33, 8 February 2006 (PST)

Food for thought

The "Karl Marx" of the movement *there* could be the prussian Ernst Haeckel. Why ?

• He coined the word "ecology"
• He was a physician, philosopher, zoologist and writer (in other words he had a good general knowledge needed to found a political "theory of everything")
• Like many of is status and era, he believed in a form of "white man's burden" (good for explaining the procelitism seen recently in Hayti and as a source of potential controversy)
• he believed in lamarkism. Although torooughly discredited as a biologic theory, he might have theorisied a form of "Social Lamarkism" whereby raising infant in a mostly closed ecotopic environment would result their own child being innatly eco-friendly (potentialy justifying some inwar looking ecotopias).
• Both in writting and in person, he was strongly anti-authoritarian & anti-religious (for that revolutionary appeal).
• he had a long shaggy white beard

Regarding the first ecotopic party, *here* the first Green party was in tasmania (in the 1970s), *there* the first ecotopic party could have been in its counterpart of Van Diemens' Land (Australasia) as a regional party.

On a different note, Oregon is said to have become an ecotopia in the late 20th century. I could be wrong but I got the feeling from some of the mentions made of Oregon that it became one earlier on. --Marc Pasquin 10:24, 11 March 2006 (PST)

I'm intrigued and pretty-much-convinced. Zahir 10:35, 11 March 2006 (PST)

I like the idea of Ernst Haeckel being the father of ecotopism. Do you want to write up that part of the article? BoArthur 15:44, 11 March 2006 (PST)

Haeckelism. Brought to you by IB. :) --Sikulu 04:12, 13 March 2006 (PST)

Would adherents be referred to as Haeckelers? BoArthur 10:31, 13 March 2006 (PST)

At first I was going to say no but considering we have a political current called SNOR, it would make some sort of pervese sense. --Marc Pasquin 15:30, 13 March 2006 (PST)

The which political movement I had gotten so used to that the acronym had lost its humor until you brought it to the fore again. LOL BoArthur 15:45, 13 March 2006 (PST)

De-propping

Barring major rejection/complaints/suggestions, I'll be depropping this at the end of the week. BoArthur 11:09, 15 January 2007 (PST)

I don't want to be a spoilsport--and I'm very appreciative of the work done so far--but I'm also a little hard-put to say precisely what Ecotopism actually is. The statement of it as a philosophy seems a tad vague. It is pro-environment, obviously. But even the name, heralding something as sweeping as a notion of Utopia, hints at a much more specific world view. Could we get this defined just a little more exactly? Zahir 13:23, 16 January 2007 (PST)

You're not a spoilsport, you're telling me exeactlky where I can improve, and that's what I was looking for! Thanks! BoArthur 13:33, 16 January 2007 (PST)

Would it be ok to deprop it now? Mind, it's not like an article needs to be perfect before it can be depropped. And it can always be worked on after that. Most important is that we agree on the basics. PS I like the article a lot! —IJzeren Jan ^Uszkiełtu? 03:03, 27 August 2007 (PDT)

I'm glad. As I am a late-comer to our group compared to others who worked with Ecotopism before me, I wasn't sure it meshed with the spirit of the group. If you feel I've interpreted it correctly, feel free to deprop. BoArthur 18:12, 27 August 2007 (PDT)

Hey, but I came only a few weeks before you did, IIRC. In any case, I think it's a clever, well-written article, and I don't see how it would mess with the spirit of IB. I'm depropping it. —IJzeren Jan ^Uszkiełtu? 03:21, 28 August 2007 (PDT)

Ecotopic League?

So, is it like the Ecotopic version of the Socialist International? (Which it probably is, but I'm just checking.) Or is there a seperate Ecotopic International, and the League is more of a supranational organisation (comprised of Oregon, Basra the Moluccas etc)? --Sikulu 01:00, 14 February 2007 (PST)

I had in mind something like what I was able to find, where it's a congress of like-minded ecotopians...where they can share ideas and such...not like a big over-arching supranational control organization that's playing puppet-master with Oregon, Basra, et al. If you want to write the article, I would love to have someone else's input! BoArthur 08:21, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Ok, I've made an article. Please take a look. --Sikulu 05:39, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Types of Ecotopism

I'm a little (actually very) unsure about the differences between different kinds of Ecotopism. Zahir 10:21, 23 August 2007 (PDT)

Me too. A voyage of discovery? :) BoArthur 16:56, 23 August 2007 (PDT)