Talk:Doc Gabriel
Doc Satan's Origin
I was thinking Doc Satan was an adopted child of a poor-but-honest couple who were extremely proud of their brilliant, tall, handsome and athletic son. However, Wayne Kennedy (as he was then called) felt an enormous sense of inferiority around others because his parents were poor and Irish. Every time something didn't go perfectly, he'd find himself dreaming more and more of his birth family. Finally, he tracked them down and was disgusted to realize they were petty thieves. More, he was enraged they wanted nothing to do with him, and in a fit of rage he killed both of them. From that moment on, he was determined to completely set himself about all other human beings on earth, even experimenting on his own body. The result increased his natural strength to an inhuman level, as well as allowing him to heal virtually any wound or survive nearly any poison. Not only was he supremely intelligent, he was now physically a super-man.
I thought maybe he should also have some kind of krypnotite-like weakness. What do you think? Zahir 22:24, 26 October 2005 (PDT)
- Sounds like Luthor-level megalomania (although I had thought that Doc Satan was a sort of 'Lex-El of Krypton'). Is the outer sace angle reserved for Mentor? More to the point, is being Irish a stigma in IB? How could I rescript "Tea Torquemada" (who is supoosed to be 'what if Lana Lang had investigated Luthor as a boy?'). Is the weakness the reason for phyiscal imperfection in Doc Gabriel?
I would also appreciate it if you could provide at least a last name for Doc Satan.Theophilus88
- You know, that is cool! Lex-El of Krypton! What if Doc Satan's origin were similar to Superman's, and perhaps Mentor is from the same planet? What do you think? That way, "Tea Torquemada" need not be rescripted at all. I pulled "Wayne Kennedy" out of a hat and simply figured that, given how the Irish experience in IB was similar to that *here* there might be a stigma among certain groups (rather the way some upper crust types still lift their noses at the Kennedies and call them nouveau riche while pretty much reacting the same way to the Rockefellers). Please feel free to offer an alternative!
- I always imagined Doc Gabriel's deformity was a direct result of his being an "opposite" copy. Doc Satan is handsome, so Doc Gabriel is ugly (but we obviously can't take that too far--otherwise Doc Gabriel would also be stupid and weak). Zahir 10:49, 28 October 2005 (PDT)
- Superman #231, according to the internet Cosmology Compendium. Here's a compromise explanation of Doc Gabriel's deformity: the alien-born Doc Satan's machine was supposed to make villainous clones of _human_ heroes; therefore, when Doc Satan fell into the machine, it was designed for humans rather than humanoid aliens. Doc Satan, being idenitcal to humans in many respects, could make a copy of himself. This copy was good, because the machine still worked, but the copy was imperfect because Doc Satan wasn't human. I would wait on the shared planet of origin idea until we know more about Mentor and Captain Silver's tyrannical wizards. Do we have any specifics on Doc Satan's IQ or strength level?Theophilus88
- We're making this up as we go along. Personally, I was imagining Doc Satan to be one or two steps up from what is humanly possible--not up there with Superman but physically superior to Captain America and smarter than Doctor Doom (!). But that was just how I was imagining him. If you have another notion, lets hear (er...read) it! I rather like your version of why Doc Gabriel is deformed better than mine. I don't get the reference to Superman #231, though. I spent a chunk of the commute to work today thinking up an alternate origin for Mentor to give him and Doc Satan the same homeworld. And I actually hadn't thought of a connection between Captain Silver's ring and Mum-Hotep--BRAVO. Zahir 19:38, 28 October 2005 (PDT)
- 231 is in reference to Lex-El. I wasn’t thinking of Mum-Ra when I mentioned Captain Silver – just that Mentor, Doc Satan, and Captain Silver all have outer space connections. The Captain Silver entry implies that there are a large number of inhabited worlds. Superman: The Animated Series made Brainiac Kryptonian, so I would avoid that connection in IB. Mum-Ra could be one of Silver’s sorceror foes, but if so, wouldn’t he go after Captain Silver rather than Mentor?
- According to the Marvel Directory, Captain America can bench press 800 pounds as a final effort. Doctor Doom is a genius-level intellect (I remember reading somewhere that he is actually smarter than Mister Fantastic, but his arrogance does him in). Doc Satan and Doc Gabriel therefore would probably bench press 800 pounds easily and be the smartest organic being on the planet (smarter than Stingray, who is genius-level, but not as smart as Mentor).
- How connected are these characters? How firm is continuity? As firm as if one were writing pulps? Looser? Are we aiming for pre-Crisis DC’s loose approach or Marvel’s decision to tie things very closely? The stated equivalence would suggest the former, the timing the latter. If we want close continuity, we need to establish an order of appearance. Doc Gabriel appears after Stingray, Vixen, and Doc Satan; of which hero (if any) was Doc Satan a foe before he created Doc Gabriel.Theophilus88
- Hmmmm. Captain Silver has space connections? I thought he was the one "mystical" hero I'd come up with. Mind you, he's also the one I feel least connected to so if you'd like to replace him with someone else, go ahead.
- Well, you _did_ mention Sinestro as inspiration, so I assumed that the wizards were "ancient Egyptian space wizards" rather than "ancient Egyptian human (or at least not alien) wizards". But I like the terrestrial wizards better.Theophilus88
- I was thinking Millennium began as slightly more consistent than DC then got moreso over time, especially after the "Re-Invention" of the 1990s. You bring up an interesting point about Doc Satan. My guess is that he was primarily a foe of Mentor and/or Captain Silver. At least they are in his power-league. I was also imagining that Millennium pioneered (more or less) having cross-over villains (kinda like when Joker and Lex Luthor teamed up). So Mum-Hotep could certainly be a foe to both Mentor and Captain Silver, or any of the others really (although not so much Stingray).
- I respect your not wanting to copy a Brainiac/Superman connection, but on the other hand it just seems so Cool! Would you mind terribly much if we went with them having the same world of origin?
- Your point is well-taken about continuity. I would say Stingray might have been the first chronologically, followed by either Vixen or Captain Silver. Then Mentor followed by Doc Gabriel. Does that make sense to you? Zahir 22:50, 28 October 2005 (PDT)
- I'll concede the same planet of origin. If Doc Satan were originally a Mentor foe, that would explain why the writers made them come from the same place. It also opens up an interesting relationship between Mentor and Doc Gabriel.Theophilus88
- Hmmmm. Captain Silver has space connections? I thought he was the one "mystical" hero I'd come up with. Mind you, he's also the one I feel least connected to so if you'd like to replace him with someone else, go ahead.
Darkening
Wow. When you say "darkening" you mean it! I am impressed! More, this is the kind of extreme makeover that happened somewhat with DC. And I imagine some fans hit the roof! Zahir 22:11, 1 November 2005 (PST)
Green Girl's Appearance
A good visual model for The Green Girl’s skin color would be the photos of Joanna Noelle Levesque (JoJo) here (I prefer the dark green in the first photo):
