Talk:Cambrian Folk Costume
The Welsh dress and stovepipe hat is Ye Olde traditional dress from the 19th century. I haven't speculated whether it became popular in Kemr. Apparently an Anglo-Welsh arista established it as the uniform on her Welsh estate and its popularity stemmed from that. Marc has not been able to find any other alternatives to this costume.
He suggests either we could assume that a male version of it exist *there* or maybe just give them something completely different. andrew
Words
Someone more learned in Cambrian should have a look at the various words I made up. Most are based on those founds on Andrew`s site but I can`t be sure if they make sense.
Since the various elements would have existed as part of the culture for quite a long time, I imagine that the words used for it would have undergone some phonetic changes over the years:
- Tokwein: It is meant to be a deformation of "Toga Gweinad" [clan toga] - Fbwla: from fibula, the latin name for the cloth pin used to keep up togas. the name would have spread to represent the entire thing. - Mitas: a sort of knee high leg covering were called mitasse in french. this is more a placeholder name then anything. How would you say "socks" in cambrian ? - Cobreitest: Another placeholder based on the french "couvre-chef" [head covering] - Gleidis: from Gladius, the roman sword.
--Marc Pasquin 16:52, 16 October 2005 (PDT)
- Might I suggest rather toweinad, ffifol and gleidd for "tokwein, fbwla and gleidis? They fit with the GMP a little better. Deiniol 07:27, 17 October 2005 (PDT)
- How does the grand master plan word exactly ?--Marc Pasquin 18:10, 17 October 2005 (PDT)
- You take a word and apply the appropriate sound changes to it :) Dan's suggestions are reliable. I checked an old textfile, sadly now corrupt and never updated. It did confirm that gleidd was listed, and also cleidd, a variant influenced by old celtic sources. Either of these can be used to mean 'ceremonial sword worn as folk costume', which distinguishes it from the more general yspad. You may decide which version you want to use and I will go with that.
- Kerno has the same distinction, but in the opposite direction. Glaz is general, yspatha is particular, though not limited to "ceremonial sword". [PB]
- Sock appears to be lla hosan, same as stocking or hose. My French dictionary does not list mitasse, sadly. I will comment on the rest after I have hit the dictionaries at the library. I like the image; might have to borrow it to use on the Brithenig homepage! - AndrewSmith 21:09, 17 October 2005 (PDT)
- I'm not surprised you couldn't find "mitasse". It hasn't been used in over 2 centuries and you would probably only see it in either a book on french colonial habits or a dictionay of quebec-french. As I said, it was meant as a "place holder" name.
- Congratulations you have defeated le Grand Robert Almighty - it didn't list "mitasse" either, I checked :) Neither does the Practical Handbook of Quebec and Acadian French list it, at least not without a thorough browse (that one I have in my own collection) don't see it under Vetements. Until someone can find an etymology I suggest we stick with lla hosan.
- I discovered that clan chief in Welsh is pennaeth llwyth without an adjectival ending to llwyth (llwythol) so towein is acceptable for Clan Cape. Note that after a feminine article the initial consonant softens to [d].
- I think cobreitest can be closer calqued to the French original as cobr-cab. If we ever find out the Welsh names for folk hats and costume then we can think about changing the names. Blandford's Folk-dress of the World doesn't give the names for parts of the costume. - AndrewSmith 22:12, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
- I found one dictionary entry online (not many old french dico in australia):
- Sadly, no ethymology though I would hazard a guess and say it might be related to "mitaine" (miten) from the germanic root "mit" [cut]. beat me how it make sense.
- about the socks, would something along the lines of "hosenwein" work ? (or anything else that the GMP would allow for "Clan Socks") --Marc Pasquin 18:53, 20 October 2005 (PDT)
Mull
The pattern's style is based on some image I found of welsh quilts.
--Marc Pasquin 16:52, 16 October 2005 (PDT)
General Comments
I don't feel thoroughly competent to judge this, but IMO this is rather splendid. When explaining IB to a co-worker, she immediately grasped that the central premise would have to be that King Arthur won, that the Saxon never conquered the Western half of Britain, etc. But it has continued to be the lovely little details which show Kemr as a really top knotch creation--the Eastern, as opposed to Western, crown for instance. And the folk costume--so very interesting! And I must say it does invoke to me a blend of Latin (as in Roman) with Celtic. Okay, that is enough of me gushing... Zahir 18:40, 16 October 2005 (PDT)
- Ce geoauns bendit! ("fancy nob"). The South is much less pretentious! ;) Love the artwork, by the way! [PB]
Two pictures
We still have the following two pictures, both made by Marc and both currently unused. Shouldn't they be linked to somehow in this article?
- Folk-kemr.GIF
Picture 1
Picture 2
--IJzeren Jan 03:03, 31 October 2005 (PST)
- Number 1 can be deleted, I have added number 2 to the article.--Marc Pasquin 16:23, 31 October 2005 (PST)
- Okay, done! --IJzeren Jan 22:34, 31 October 2005 (PST)
