File talk:Septimus derleth arms.jpg

Love the symbolism. Maybe a gold lion for England? Benkarnell 17:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I could have gone either way on that, but I figured some variety in the color would be nice. Thankee for your kind words! Zahir 17:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You're right. The red looks good. Benkarnell 17:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

However there is a red lion on the scotish royal crest (and flag) so this might cause confusion.--Marc Pasquin 13:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A valid point (despite the white rose of york in its claw). Will give it some thought. Zahir 16:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

You could always give a red mane to a gold lion (lion passant or maned gules). That could be pretty. Benkarnell

Except of course that it isn't a lion but a leopard, like that on the English flag. I've made a new version with a gold leopard. Let me know what you think. 16:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

But of course, the English "leopards" are in fact lions passant guardant. "Leopardee" ("like a leopard") was an heraldic term in old Norman French, meaning "in the attitude passant guardant". So the English COA was "three lions leopardee", hence the confusion. You also occasionally find "leopards lionnee" ("leopards rampant"). Apparently in the very early days of heraldry, some blazons just had "a lion". With no other information it was assumed to be rampant, so this became "lionnee" ("like a lion"). And in the same way, a blazon of "a leopard" was assumed to be passand guardant unless otherwise stated, so this became "like a leopard". Hence the English "leopards" are actually lions. At least, *here*. QAA the early history of heraldry is the same.

Interesting! Thank you! But the crest in this case is still a leopard, clutching a white (i.e. York) rose. Myself, I preferred the red. What does anyone else think? Zahir 15:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the gold one is better for the reason I mentioned above. --Marc Pasquin 15:29, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the red looked better but the gold is symbologically(?) more "correct". Aesthetics or symbolism. Benkarnell