Talk:Zheng He

What exactly is meant by:

"...all of China's Indian colonies were taken by the Federated Kingdoms during the Hunan-Canton war"?

So far we know of one Chinese colony in India, namely Kochin. Does the statement quoted above mean Kochin is now under FK administration? Does it also mean that Bombay, Calcutta, and Madras (which I know are British now) were once Chinese? And which China are we talking about, Beihanguo or one of the others?

Boreanesia 04:17, 19 Jun 2005 (PDT)

I have a note that Calicut and Cochin were under Hunanese administration. They were seized and now comprise the Malabar Coast, which is part of the ill defined Indo-British Colonial Union presently under League of Nations mandate. Wouldn't be surprised if MC ends up as an FK-Cantonese joint venture before long. I don't think the others were Chinese at any time.

As for "which China" -- I would say that any Chinese colonies that existed in India, like their counterparts in East Africa and several in Europe, were claimed when China was a unitary state. Some time between Zheng He and the 19th century. I would suspect that after the Oriental War, the Indian colonies were transfered to Canton and then subsequently taken by or transferred to Hunan. The FK and their Indian allies simply decided that, in the better interests of all, those colonies needed to be subdued. Perhaps there were a few too many pro-Hunan agitators and businesses there, supplying the Hunanese war machine back home. Elemtilas

Why would they have been transferred to Canton and then to Hunan, and not to any other Chinese successor state?

I don't know, really. I'm just trying to figure out some possibilities to explain the few known facts. The explanations are, of course, subject to revision and overhaul!

Keeping in mind that China lost the Oriental War, this is what I think could have happened:

1. China's Asian colonies were "adopted" by the winners of the war, in casu Australasia, Russia and/or the FK;
2. China's Asian colonies were pretty much left alone, and with the disappearance of the motherland, they became de facto independent states;
3. China's Asian colonies never played a part in the war, and so basically nothing changed there. With China falling apart, they remained the colonial property of the Chinese successor state that could be considered a prolongation of the "old" China more than any other successor state, namely Beihanguo.
4. China's Asian colonies ended up as a part of the "closest" sea-faring Chinese successor state. That could be Canton, but also Fujian-Taiwan-Hainan or Shanghai.
5. China's Asian colonies ended up as part of whatever Chinese successor states their governors came from.

Options 4 and 5 are not very realistic IMO, because China was disbanded by the forces that won the war. Therefore the process must have been fundamentally different from what would have happened if the country had fallen apart by itself (like Russia or Austro-Dalmatia).
Now that I think of it, this is what we wrote about CEA: "In addition, the former colony of Chinese East Africa is today ruled as a kind of condominium between the various Chinese states under the auspices of the Chinese East Africa Company". Frankly, and taking into consideration that China had lost a war, I don't think the winners of the war would have let China keep is major colony, Chinese East Africa. If you ask me, it would éither have become a separate Chinese successor state, ór it would have been taken over by one or more of the Allies (perhaps after an intermezzo of international rule).
--IJzeren Jan 06:42, 20 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Very sensible. Though, I don't see how their Indian colonies could have remained nonplayers while CEA was in the thick of it. The Malabar Coast is an excellent location for military / naval installations and would make fine stopover ports for such air fleets as they may have had. I also think it would be very unlikely to leave them alone after the war. In retrospect, option 1 seems to be the most likely, with the ammendation that CEA become a successor state on equal footing with the rest of China-Beihanguo. Their colonies would still be dealt with during the later war between Hunan and Canton, with the results already known, even if they were left alone after the earlier war.

I updated the history to reflect the adoption of the Malabar Coast colonies by the FK after the 1949 Oriental War: "Calicut (E) and Cochin (K), former Beihanguo (Chinese) colonies, were seized by Federated forces during the 1949 Oriental War and following the League of Nations mandate have integrated them into the Indo-British Union." What colonies would Australasia have been likely to pick up? Elemtilas

I agree that option 1 would be the most likely. So, the colonies go to the winners of the Oriental War. Well, count out Russia, because Russia already took care of Uyguristan and Mongolia (and if Turkestan had some kind of special relationship with China before and during the war, that one too). Would Australasia have any colonies of its own? Wouldn't the situation rather be like with the NAL: that every Australasian colony q.q. becomes an English, a Kemrese or a Scottish colony?

What other colonies are there, except for Calicut and Cochin? No idea, you tell me!

As for CEA, I can think of the following solution: CEA became an independent, post-Chinese successor state in 1949. What happened next is what also happened in most African countries *here*: that the country was completely not prepared for self-government, and soon became the exclusive playing ground for a dictatorship of maffioso bloodhounds who bathed in luxury while the impoverished population suffered hunger. At some point during the 1970s or 1980s (or later) the regime was deposed by a popular uprising, and a new temporary democratic government was installed. Seeing how many other former colonies fared well in a more or less equal relationship with their motherlands, this government pursued a course directed at establishing a similar partnership with the Chinas. That's the moment where the CEAC comes in. How do you like that? --IJzeren Jan 03:21, 21 Jun 2005 (PDT)