Talk:Cambrian Rite

Can someone explain a little bit more to me the differences in the Cambrian Rite? For example: Do they allow married or female priests? Zahir 06:48, 4 March 2006 (PST)

These are old issues indeed! There were two competing schools of thought early on regarding these issues. Ray Brown proposed that there would be really little influence from the old "Celtic Church" and that the Cambrian Rite is little different from the Roman. Pete Skye proposed that the Celtic Church should have been more influential upon the early Cambrian Rite Catholic Church (CRCC), or rather, that its distinctiveness should never have been eradicated by Rome, on account of the resistance to assimilation in Britain. I favoured, and still do favour, Peter's proposal.

I think it safe to say that such practices as could be verifiably Celtic in nature are to be found in the Cambrian Rite as well. We are certain in that the CRCC is monastic in nature (its head is the Abbot Patriarch of Glastein); accepts the Epistles of Christ and Abgarus and Shepherd of Hermas and that the former is an icon of veneration across Catholic Britain (Kemr and England mostly); uses the vernacular during the Liturgy (except in Dunein where Latin is still the norm); and that it considers Kemr to be the "most ancient" Christian nation in the world (seeing as Jesus spent his youth in Britain, undoubtedly learning philosophy from the duids and St. Joseph of Arimathaea landed near Glastein after Pentacost with the Holy Grail (and/or Jesus's wife), the first written Gospel (sometimes equated with "Q"), Jesus's garments, and possibly the Arc of the Covenant in tow). If we are to believe èverything the medievals said about the Church in Britain...

We are reasonably sure that the CRCC allows a married priesthood (but possibly requires that a man be married before accepting ordination), possibly continues in the use of its own Easter reckoning, looks more towards the prayers, philosophies and acts of the Celtic saints, and in matters of liturgy, uses that found in the Stowe Missal. It is less sure, but I think that the CRCC might continue to use its own "Elder Vulgate", an older Latin version of the gospels than the New Vulgate (that of Jerome), which is contained in the "Book of St. Teliam", which was a translation used by the Celtic Church *here*. I am less certain on the issue of a female priesthood. Much as I personally like the idea, I don't think it squares with biblical teaching -- though mind you, a female deaconate certainly does, and I would think that the CRCC has that if not a female priesthood.

We also know that the Liturgy is chanted or sung in its entirety (unlike the RC Mass *here*) and is a real sung dialogue between priest and cantor/congregation; and furthermore that the choir is traditionally and commonly supported in its hymnody by a "brace of serpents or ophicleides" rather than the organ you find in the RC churches. Some parishes sport a more varied musical group, often composed of local brass bandsmen and other amateur and perhaps professional musicians. Elemtilas 17:19, 4 March 2006 (PST)

Apart from the use of its own liturgy I think the CRCC differs on administration. Its order is monastic rather than episcopal. Its highest office is the abbatcy. This office acts as the spiritual and administrative head of the CRCC. A Synod of Abbots can act as the decision-making body of the church. Apostolic authority descends through the abbots. Because of this regional authority of the diocese is more fluid. A local church or monastery will refer back to its founding order rather than its neighbours who may belong to a different tradition. An abbot may be a married man, at least at the time of taking vows. Dynastic succession, father to son, was not unusual among abbots. It has become rare in recent centuries.

The sacramental office, the bishop, is normally separate from the abbots. The bishop is the only office in the CRCC that múst be celebate, it is not available to married men. In Kemr the bishop has no diocesan authority and has freedom of movement. They are a significantly smaller group compared with the abbots. An abbot could dispense the sacraments proper to a parish priest, but probably could not do sacraments of confirmation or priesting, whereas a bishop can conduct all seven sacraments.

The CRCC respects the ruling of the Holy Father on the issue of a female priesthood. It has from within its own tradition who argue that this is not in keeping with their own tradition. Logically ruling abbesses would have to exist -- I suspect canon law limits their influence. - AndrewSmith 19:07, 4 March 2006 (PST).

Indeed -- thank you for clarifying the bit about monasticism! That is certainly one of the keys to differentiating the CRCC from the RRCC, or any of the other Rites. I really like the idea of free roaming bishops!

There are (RC) canons that deal with the powers of abesses -- I'd have to look into that again to refresh my memory. Obviously, they don't have the sacramental capacities that priests have. Well, I figured as much that the CRCC wouldn't have a female priesthood, but what do you think of a female deaconate? Elemtilas 20:39, 4 March 2006 (PST)

Nihil obstat to the female deaconate (I'm protestant anyway :) Obviously an abbess is not ordained with the priestly functions that an abbot can opt to use. Bishops should operate in the same way I understand they did in the churches of the far east. I'm trying to be careful here and leave it sufficiently open that I don't make David do a rewrite on Bishop Sharpton. - AndrewSmith

I'm willing to do a rewrite, but I just like for some reason this image of Al Sharpton as a Bishop and also Lord Governor of Jacobia. Don't know why, but it is strangely appealing. My concern is how to reconcile a few details. Zahir 22:35, 4 March 2006 (PST)

Which details still need reconciling? Elemtilas 10:18, 5 March 2006 (PST)

I think the reconciling is essentially done. I think. Zahir 12:07, 5 March 2006 (PST)