Welcome to the Merry Band, Gwaell!
I noticed you are interested in the railway system of the NAL and Chicago; as a matter of fact, I am too. What say you we collaborate? Juanmartinvelezlinares 07:54, 4 January 2017 (PST)
I am quite interested. I have already documented Post Roads that pass through Chicago which you can see here: Post Road 6, Post Road 10. I would love to collaborate. First of all, what do you already have created about the railway system? (A map or the general outline or just a list of Point A-Point B at least)
Haha, don't worry, our newest member is one step ahead of you. I hope that you don't feel pressured by me to work on Chicago or anything else because I asked. I simply lack the creativity to think of new concepts that deal with transport in the IB universe because I lack the preliminary knowledge. I admit that I need help in this critical area of trade and would happy to waive my rights to decide road routes to Gwaell that deal with the great transport hub of Chicago. Misterxeight 19:28, 6 January 2017 (PST)
Thank you. I am simply working off of a map of NAL roads, but I may soon decide what provincial highways or railroad routes will run through. Gwaell 10:31, 7 January 2017
- Well, the railway network of the NAL is already outlined in part at Padraic's website, which I believe is our "official" website here at Bethisad Industries, Inc. There's a section detailing the railways of the NAL in some detail, including some of the major lines which run through Chicago. You could also look at the Railways of the NAL page to get a certain idea of the workings of the network and which lines constitute it. With regards to my own personal opinions of how the Chi-town rail system is set up (I've mostly thought out passenger rail, not so much freight, I'm afraid):
- Chicago Union Station is the largest of the myriad stations in Chicago, serving the Penn Central system, the Gulf, Mobile and Aquanishuonigy, and possibly any equivalents of the Burlington Route, Milwaukee Road, etc., as well as international TGV and long-distance trains from St. Louis and Paris-sur-Mizouri.
- The Chicago and North Western terminal serves all trains of the Chicago and North Western, and possibly of the Baltimore and Aquanishuonigy and Chesapeake and Aquanishuonigy as well (but then again, maybe not).
- Central Station serves the Grand Mississippi Road (Mississippi & Western), which I'm assuming is *there*'s equivalent of the Illinois Central, as well as the equivalent of the Soo Line if such a thing exists. GMR commuter trains as well as trains of the South Shore Line continue on to Millennium Station in downtown Chicago, close to the Loop.
- The Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin commuter/interurban service operates into Wells Street Terminal, a four-track terminal nevertheless furnished in the same manner as the grand terminals of the major railroads. In Chicago, the line effectively serves as an express service to the Congress Expressway 'L', skipping stops and providing more comfortable service, before branching off to serve Elgin, Aurora, Batavia, and other cities in Metro Chicago.
- The North Shore Line runs into Rosenberg Station just south of downtown, sharing it with the Englewood-Normal Park and Midway Aerodrome 'L' lines. It operates over the northern and eastern legs of the Loop Elevated southbound, and the southern and western legs of the Loop northbound, and uses the Skokie and North Side 'L's to reach downtown.
- The Chicago 'L' is operated by Chicago Rapid Transit; it includes a few more lines and stops than *here*, with the Skokie line having never become a two-station service, the Congress line running all the way to Westchester, the Normal Park and Kenwood branches still in operation, and possibly even continued service over the Humboldt Park branch and the Paulina Connector. Services I imagine run something like this:
- Brown Line (Kenwood to Ravenswood via Loop)
- Green Line (Lake to Englewood-Normal Park and maybe also Jackson Park, via Loop)
- Blue Line (Westchester to O'Hare via Milwaukee-Dearborn Subway)
- Red Line (Howard to Dan Ryan via State Street Subway)
- Purple Line (Normally Linden-to-Howard shuttle, express service to Loop during rush hours)
- Orange Line (Midway to Loop)
- Yellow Line (Howard to Skokie; only 'L' line to use catenary)
- Pink Line (Douglas branch, then either to Loop or Humboldt Park over Paulina Connector; I haven't made up my mind yet)
- I'm still not 100% sure about a few things, including whether or not the Jackson Park branch should be separate or not from the Englewood-Lake line, or the ultimate alignment of the Pink Line.
- The Chicago Surface Lines boasts the (second?) largest tram/streetcar network in the world, as well as an extensive trolleybus service on the Northwest Side and myriad bus lines. It is privately owned, and consists of a federation of sorts of five streetcar and bus companies, like the IRL Chicago Surface Lines *here*.
- Basically, Chicago rail service somewhat resembles how it was before the Great Depression and the Interstate Highway System caused the decline of interurbans and long-distance rail in the US.
- Now, for other things I haven't 100% made my mind up on. I'm not sure if Grand Central Station is still open *there* or if it closed in 1969 as it did *here*, which means I'm not sure where to route the B&A's Columbiastar TGVs; I'm also not sure if Dearborn and LaSalle Street Stations exist, since I'm not sure if their associated lines (Wabash and Rock Island, respectively) would exist. Any ideas on that?
- I was thinking that *there*, since there was no Great Depression, Samuel Insull would have retained his holdings until his death. Now here comes the interesting part; *here* Insull was a strong proponent of consumer protections being applied to regulate monopolies, and even suggested municipal ownership of utilities (including electric rail) at a few points. So I was wondering if *there* maybe he transferred his Chicago-area holdings to the fifthing government, perhaps resulting in a situation something like the Hong Kong MRT or the RATP.
- As a result of that, the RTA (i.e. the Metra operators) forms much earlier *there* (perhaps around the 40s or even 30s, depending on how long we let Insull live), starting out with Insull's three electric interurban lines and gradually growing to include all commuter rail service in the Chicago area. While the original three lines are wholly owned, operated and funded by Metra, the rest are owned and operated by the major railroads (CNW, PC, BN, etc.), though funded and branded as Metra services. Commuter service is wholly electric, mostly operated by multiple units though some lines use locomotive-hauled trainsets or a mix of both.
That's what I've got for Chicago. What do you think? Juanmartinvelezlinares 14:46, 7 January 2017 (PST)
I think that Grand Central Station would close like *here*, but *there*, La Salle would take its place. I don't believe that Dearborn would exist *there*, since no railways appear to run through it. I am sure that since there is no Great Depression, Insull would behave very differently, and I like your scenario about him giving his holdings to the fifthing government, and the Metra operators developing much earlier. I still think he would die in the late 30's like *here*. Thanks for all the info, really helpful.Gwaell 16:00, 7 January 2017
Montserratians in Florida
I'm glad to see you back and getting your ideas for Florida integrated into the franchise. I was wondering if you could find some room in what you're devising for the ex-Irish mandate in Florida for some refugees from the island of Montserrat.
In real life in 1995, a volcano erupted that destroyed two-thirds of the island and sent two-thirds of the island fleeing to nearby Antigua from where a lot scattered to farther away places like Boston, NYC, & London. In real life, Antigua was inundated with the survivors, the UK had to be sued to begrudgingly accept them, and a decade later the US expelled anyone who took refugee there. They had a rough time of things and the island hasn't been fully rebuilt yet a quarter of a century on.
I've only ever seen evidence of IB stopping natural disasters once. Libya's water tables didn't run out in the 500's so that Marcus the caretaker could keep a continuous Greek presence going that didn't die out from lack or water or assimilation into the Berbers' nomadic society. The volcano no doubt happened, but the planet of IB is no doubt suffering less than our own with all the world's industrial powerhouses (the US, India, & China) nonexistent. The Caribbean probably doesn't have the intense ferocity of storms our real life Caribbean has been receiving for the past couple of years.
In 1995, Florida was still a force to be reckoned with and Ireland had no stake in the region. Montserrat was also directly a part of Ireland whereas its real life version wasn't wholly integrated into the UK. I'm of the opinion that Ireland worked quickly and got everyone onto boats to nearby islands and then scooped them up and sent them via plane to the metropole and placed them into public housing. I bet it would be quite traumatic for about 9,380 people (2/3rds of 14,000 people) to lose everything in a fiery inferno and then languish in public housing in the cold and grey North Atlantic. I really think that Ireland would selfishly try to use the Montserrat refugees for their own devices. In 2004/5, they could send probably most of those 9,380 to settle in Florida. Florida is infinitely closer to their homeland with a much closer climate than County Cork, that's for sure. Just overnight, they'd have 9,000 Irish-speakers loyal to the state to help pacify their occupation zone. I just read your new addition to Tampa, do you think that could be the city they'd end up in if you agree with my speculation? Thanks. Misterxeight 13:04, 18 April 2020 (PDT)
That makes a lot of sense. Tampa proper might be fairly occupied by this point, and thus Ireland may settle most of them in the suburbs to the south. However, that would still cause a strong Montserrat presence in the area, and having residents dependent on and loyal to Ireland have definitely incentivized them to make Tampa the capital of the new nation. Sure, Ireland does want South Florida to be an independent nation, but I predict they still want to have friendly relations with the country. This also would heighten the tensions between the east and the west halves of the country and increase the motivation for a prolonged peacekeeping force; the west is supported by Ireland and is motivated to keep Tampa as the capital, while the east is supported by RTC and wants to move the capital to Miami. Both these powers now have loyal minorities installed in the country which would each campaign for their respective country's goals. In addition, there is a platform growing in the south forego all of these foreign influences and restore each constituent's autonomy. Overall, 2020 will have a very heated election cycle, as many landmark decisions have yet to be finalized.
I like your idea. I think it fits in very well with the story and will give Tampa a unique cultural identity. I was just researching Tampa's flag *here* and I want to give Tampa *there* its own flag as well. This flag will combine the flags of Castile and Leon, South Florida, and Montserrat and also have a unique shape like the city's flag *here*. --Gwaell 13:32, 18 April 2020 (PDT)
Accessing Yahoogroups messages
If you want to replace a dead link with the actual message, I've put the backup of the messages in the file section of the Facebook group. They're in chronological order so if you know the message number or date, you should be able to it. I couldn't upload a zip file with the images (facebook don't like zip files) but if you want something specific, tell me and I'll look for it in my backup.--Marc pasquin 00:19, 5 May 2020 (PDT)