Talk:Uniforms and insignias
It came to my attention that someone was wondering about the IB military uniforms and insignias so I dusted off a few old projects and linked some others. Feel free to add.
a few suggestions for would be creators:
What some might see as the "standard" naval insignias *here* (those with the loops) are based on the british ones due to that country naval hegemony during the 19th century. Due to the nature of IB, it is doubtfull that this would be the case *there*. Unless they are connected to the FK country that use them (if indeed any of them do), smaller countries have as much reasons of choosing the naval insignias of countries with a long naval istory (Castille, Scandinavia, france, batavia, etc...) based on their geographical situation, their colonial past or simply who helped set up their navy.
One last thing to note is that many countries simply use the same insignias for all arms (army, navy, air force, amphibious, etc...) with only some minor differences (colours, added emblems, etc...).
Question, if I want to, let say, make my proposal for HRE Kriegsmarine 1940-1949 ( btw, I think the H.R.E.’s United Army/Navy dissolved back to many semi-independent states after the end of rule of the Adolf Hessler) rank insignias, what would look like the auxiliary insignias? There two thoughts, first traditional German cuff ranks based somewhat on Prussian/German Navy like “there,” or the second, to abolish cuff insignias at all and go with collar ranks, just like “there” was during the Nazi times, a water police service. The police had similar uniforms to Kriegsmarine, but insignias were on collars represented a combination of blue waves and silver pipes. So, what to choose?
Thank you, Ziba.
Unless they are directly related to russia (like Alyeska), there would be no reason for communist countries on IB to base their insignias on russian ones (*here*, the soviet re-adopted tsarist insignias in the later part of WWII). It would probably be better to draw inspiration from those of the CSDS.
If the IB country has an equivalent *here* (even if it existed briefly) you might want to check out what their uniforms were like. Even if they existed before insignias become commonplace (in the 19th century), you might still found some inspiration in the regalia of the era. For example, the crossed-batons insignia worn by the army marshals in many countries *here* comes from the french heraldic augmentation given to those that held that rank under the ancient regime.
- I've been working on insignias for AC's army lately and I've worked out my own system, since it seems rank systems appear oftentimes arbitrary. I don't think this should be an issue unless you, Marc, know of any reason why we shouldn't create our own systems. -- Doobieous 29 July, 2005 09:05 PST
- There is obviously some trends but yes, it can sometime be pretty arbitrary (look at the US system). That being said, military forces tend to be quite conservative in term of its regalia: Many ex-USSR republics still use soviet era uniforms (with light adaptation), same goes for a lot of ex-british colonies (New Zealand still use *exactly* the same rank insignias). So countries using a system related to other ones is very commons and would probably apply *there* to. In addition, this sort of things help show cohesion in fictional settings. For example, NF, Louisiana and Hayti probably have some similarity with the French system without being identicalto it (or to one another).
- Those IB countries who would have more chances of having a distinct system are either those who were sovereign before the 19th century (when it became widespread), those who wish to distinguish themselves strongly (ethnic separatist groups) and those who proclaim a radical political view. This is not however always the case, the first time the chechen declared independance, they used a modified russian system and the Soviet themselve re-adopted the tsarist system with some light changes.
- In the particular case of AC, things I would suggest are:
- * the insignias could be said to be based on those of the 1840 AC rebels which would have been purposefully different from the castillian and/or mejican ones.
- * Since (as far as I know) the castillian uniforms and like have not been designed, one could assumed that the AC insignias *are* base on the army of castille and retcon the later from there.
--Marc Pasquin 11:59, 29 Jul 2005 (PDT)
- Hmm. Point one is good, and allows leeway. It also would fit in with a spirit of independence (and a lack of any sort of royal trappings). Point two is good, but say my proposal gets approved, that means I've set a precidence for the design of Castille's insignias. But of course that means the design can be different from here (which gives whoever designs Castille's some artistic room). My guess is point one provides for the least affect on any of the other cultures represented here.
- Also, my guess is Montréi's designs would be similar or very close to AC's, so that's not an issue. -- Doobieous 29 July, 2005 12:33 PST
Have you thought of doing anything for Louisianne? Any recommendations?
- I have been working on something for the whole of the french speaking IB nations (LA, NF, FR HT). the idea being that it would look like a single system which evolved into 4 (sort of like the british and russian system evolved into many in former colonies).
- If you want to work on it on your end, probably draw inspiration from the french system used *here* and compared it to former african colonies (to see along what way it tend to evolve).
- I'll try to send something this week --Marc Pasquin 12:44, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Just because I was bored
I have created a proposal for the Alyaskan army rank shoulder boards. Please follow the link and tell me what you think.
I like them very much. I like the colors that you've used (even though the metals are common, but...)Doobieous 22:43, 9 December 2005 (PST)
- I have altered the enlisted ranks a bit and added boards for the Air and Naval branches. Erskine 10:44, 10 December 2005 (PST)
- Question is, who did this design first, me or Erskine? But we agree in one,the Marc's streight Soviet copy of shoulder boards, which in turn were desparate attempt to rise spirit for the Motherland in dire time, simply non-existed in this universe.
- Thank you,Ziba Lordziba
- Lordziba et al,
- I tried to coordinate a median variation between Marc's SNORist shoulderboards and LZ's designs based on the soviet people's army insignia from the begining of HERE's WWII. I then changed them a little so that they would be a bit more disinct; hence, the basket-weave pattern, large gold stripes and the late soviet style enlisted insignia. Erskine 12:51, 11 December 2005 (PST)