Talk:South Florida

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HRE...

I like that idea! If I look at the map right, South Florida could very well become similiar to the Holy Roman Empire. If we take the República Conchesa as a sign, then we may be able to get a government going in South Florida. And think of the possibilities that one of the districts is a condominium! Seth 6:59 16 April 2006 (PST)

I think that an HRE-like group would actually be desirable. Now what the RTC has in mind, who knows, but I think that the Irish are happy with the idea of a decentralized autonomous nation. BoArthur 08:04, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

Seminoles?

What happened to the Seminole indians *there*? Were they as poorly treated by the whites as *here*? Or were they partners? or...? BoArthur 21:11, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

A good question indeed. The First Seminole War likely did not happen, or, if it did, would've occurred differently, given that Florida remained Spanish. Nik 16:51, 25 April 2006 (PDT)
Perhaps the Seminole retained considerable autonomy in inner Florida, particularly the Everglades. During Bush's reign, I suspect they would've been forced to assimilate, and, quite possibly, the Seminole Nation was carved up among neighboring Distritos. There could be agitation for restored independence or autonomy by the Seminole Nik 16:54, 25 April 2006 (PDT)
I would posit that under Bush's term in office, they would have been granted rights previously lacking and might have been encouraged to mainstream; but would not have been "forced to assimilate". You're falling prey to the imperialist propaganda machine that has Bush pegged as a tinpot dictator! ;) Elemtilas 07:32, 31 October 2007 (PDT)

They might be the driving force for the "redistricting" of the central regions. It will be interesting to see the real Irish map when it comes out. BoArthur 07:54, 26 April 2006 (PDT)

Republic of South Florida

Perhaps the name should be something more like "Federal Republic of South Florida" or "Federation of South Florida", given the decentralized nature of the proposal. Nik 16:51, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

I belive that "Federation of South Florida" would be best, but "Federal Republic of South Florida" sounds really good also. We may also have to deal with the Irish and RTC government clashing to see what the future of South Florida is. Seth 14:01, 26 April 2006 (PST)
Oh, I fully expect there to be some HIGH tensions between Ireland and the RTC. BoArthur 07:53, 26 April 2006 (PDT)
Upon further thinking, I think "Confederation of Florida"/"Confederate Republics of Florida" would do better. I dropped the "South" from South Florida, because I think Floridians would prefer to think of themselves AS Florida, and not just some remainder portion. What do you guys think? Seth 02:44, 28 August 2007
I like the "Confederate Republics of Florida" better. BoArthur 20:50, 27 August 2007 (PDT)

Advance?

I've been looking over some articles recently, and remembered South Florida. How would you guys feel to have more autonomy being granted, and and a few of the Autonomous zones to begin discussion of their future? Needless to say, RTC is going to be miffed by this slow transition, and tensions will rise again. What do you think? Seth 10:36 pm, 26 April, 2007

I would say yes, but I'm thinking that we'll only be able to speak for the Irish side of the equation; Jan's had a spot of life crop up, like many of us, and so he's been out of contact for a bit. BoArthur 17:30, 27 April 2007 (PDT)

And now it's already almost November! Does anyone know how the year has been in Florida? Have the Irish continued granting autonomy to various republics? Is the RTC portion a quagmire? Benkarnell 09:19, 26 October 2007 (PDT)

I can't really speak for either side, but since I started the germanization process of the Irish side, I would say, yes, they're all mostly autonomous. As for the RTC, Jan of Steel? BoArthur 17:00, 26 October 2007 (PDT)

Perhaps it's time to advance this? I can't remember where, but I thought the Floridians were supposed to either be "free" by late 2008 or sometime in 2009, so... Seth 04:54, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Something to bring up to Jan Van Steenbergen. It's been waiting on the RTC Zone. BoArthur 16:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Certainly, recent news out of Florida's RTC Zone indicates that the South Floridians aren't willing to bide much longer. Guerilla activity has been suspected since 2004, and was reported on by the BBC in 2007. Open revolts have blossomed since, and while the official line is "no appreciable guerrila activity beyond small bands of ill-equipped and failing rebels hiding out in the swamps", I should think it would be rather difficult to hide the events of late 2008.
That the (presently) victorious rebels have gotten the NAL and Irish governors officially involved in what was recently RTC controlled territory, one can only imagine the tensions in the region have heightened.
I think it's also fair to say that the NAL is not prepared to wait much longer, either. Sure, they certainly bided their time in recovering the Floridas at all, but once the NAL does wake from slumber and begins to move, the problem becomes one of stopping it again. Various talk of outright assimilation into East Florida, annexing the place as a separate province (South Florida, presumably), quietly supporting the rebels in their bid for independence can only serve to inflame fears among both the Irish and the RTC. Whatever the future actually will reveal, two American senators and their teams of investigators are presently touring the provisional Commonwealth of Four Palms and plan on heading south to Miami to see what's what.
Elemtilas 15:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Germanisation Scheme

I'm curious as to why the Irish would choose the modern HRE as its template for Floridian self rule in the aftermath of the 2004 War. Was there a conscious decision to germanise the region in an effort to debilitate the country like what happened to the HRE in the aftermath of GWII? Did they feel it was otherwise important to segregate various power centres? Did they place this project in the hand of some cartographers who got all happy with the coloured pens? :) Personally, I think it's doomed to failure, or at least a long and difficult road ahead. Floridians are still smarting, especially in the eastern zone (the RTC's) and have not proven to be especially cooperative. Elemtilas 07:28, 31 October 2007 (PDT)

I believe we chose "Germanisation" because it would still allow a Floridian "state", but would not be so centralized that it could attempt to retake it's former empire. Seth 16:53, 31 October 2007
I think Seth has hit the general feeling. I don't think that the goal was to debilitate Florida, but was indeed a push by the "victors" (LA, SR, NAL, &c) to limit the chance for a resurgence of Florida-Caribbea. I think that when it finally surfaces, the government of Florida will be a confederacy, with much more of the government in the hands of the sub-regions than in the hands of a central government, as in Tampa. BoArthur 17:08, 31 October 2007 (PDT)

I'm becoming a tad jarred by the recent movements in SE Florida, notably the Four Palms. It seems to me that the movements gripping RTC-occupied South Florida are not even trying to work with the Irish-occupied zone, but are attempting to break into several independent statelets. I'm a tad opposed to this seeing as how the Floridians are a very proud people and would probably like to at least have a single somewhat-semi-unified front, rather than multiple weak ones. While I agree that Miami would probably be a hotbed of Floridian and RTC uniqueness (forgive me if there is a better phrase, but is it quite late where I am...), I still doubt that a majority in the region would like to be occupied any longer, and see the occupation as wither temporary or something that must be violently opposed (Four Palms). Seth 07:07, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you've adequately voiced the feelings of those states in the Irish ZOC. I think those under the thumb of the RTC are a bit scrabbled just now, trying to fight off the oppressive Veneds. I think that when the dust settles, they'll come to their senses. That's MY feeling, at least. BoArthur 14:03, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
As far as Four Palms is concerned, they *are* actually working with the Irish, if not directly with the Irish occupied zone (mostly, because they are not part of the Irish occupied zone). They went first and formost to the Irish and have sought such assistance from them as they're willing and able to give. They didn't ask to be taken over by Ireland; Ireland didn't seek to take them over.
Obviously, nothing is yet settled regarding the status of southern Florida at all, whether it will be small independent states or a central unitary state or a confederation of some kind. Four Palms is, at present, most happy with its own independence and, at present, is not interested at all in a unitary state. (I have the feeling SW Florida isn't that interested in a strong central government either, because the natural center for one is highly populous and former capital city, Miami.) They have expressed on several occasions that they would be satisfied with some kind of, as you say above, confederation with government in the hands of the sub-regions. I think they're willing to entertain the latter, and their seeking Irish help and their choice of currency as being identical to that used in SW Florida is indicative of this attitude.
I'm not sure how to make things much clearer: the statement Four Palms has made isn't so much "sod the rest of Florida" as much as "we're sick and tired of how the RTC has handled Floridian reconstruction and if they're not going to do it, we're going to take our own reconstruction into our own hands and see to it ourselves (only, we're going to ask Ireland to back us up on this)". As I see it, all they've really done is put the Floridian Plan into high gear! In stead of waiting for the RTC to hem and haw down in the SE and waiting for Ireland to patiently wait for the RTC to make a move, the people of Four Palms have said "enough: now is the time for everyone to get this or some kind of Plan in action. Here, we have made our stand and are making our move towards self-governance and reconstruction, the ultimate and stated goal of the conquering victors. The rest of you can follow our lead or not." This has been going on for something like four years, and that's really about three years too long -- I mean, how long does the world community think people can live in makeshift relocation camps? Remember how fast North Florida was recovered by the NAL? I really think the Plan for South Florida was originally along a similar timeline. Elemtilas 17:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

2009

I noted that there was a scheduled constitutional convention due in April of this year. That was around 3-4 months ago. Anyone wish to elaborate? Seth 08:00, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I've answered the above by adding to the Commonwealth of Four Palms article. Hope that answers some pressing questions! Elemtilas 18:02, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I think we're still up in the air due to Jan's pending information about the RTC ZOC. BoArthur 18:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

With the RTC, you never know what bizarre (series of conflicting) reaction(s) might issue from various levels of Coronal burocracy. Remember the guy who got his government job after some decades of hearing nothing from officialdom? I wouldn't doubt that sòme portion of the RTC's machinery has not yet even gotten word of the presumed Armistice. I know the rèst of that same machinery hasn't yet bothered to ratify or even acknowledge the Armistice, even though they know about it. It's probably still in Bombaryla's in box. Very possibly, the military hierarchy could issue nearly simultaneous orders to both stand down and attack with full vigor! Elemtilas 02:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
The last news out of the RTC was that the Florida scandal produced a Sejm even more paralyzed than usual. So we can safely assume no progress from that direction. Don't forget that the Greek land deal is also still up in the air. The CVSS minister's response to it, you may remember, was foreceful enough to severely upset some more neutral-minded members of the Commission (like the MR). A censure vote failed to pass in April, but she has been told to please tone it down. But this does mean that various Greek and CVSS officials have also been running around in Florida this summer. Benkarnell 16:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Sure. But for such a deal to be taken seriously by C-P, or anyone else, the RTC would have to reinvade, reoccupy and reassert its authority there. They lost that authority back in late 2008. Apart from the now iconic "Lost Battalion" of RTC troops up along the north shore of the island, who are still being provided with groceries and newspapers and the like by the locals, there are no Coronal troops within C-P and no Coronal authorities. I suppose they could try to back-date the agreement -- but that would be like Mexico trying to back-date an agreement selling Texas to France! Elemtilas 01:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Nevertheless, not all nations have recognized C-P, correct? If I were Greece, I'd be trying hard to discourage recognition in order to legitimize the deal. Benkarnell 02:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
The RTC being one of the key countries not to have recognised C-P. Probably Toga hasn't either. But I can't really guess how that would much matter. The RTC is one of the "beligerents" in the whole affair, and many other countries around the world really don't have any interest in the region. C-P dóes have the recognition and support of the NAL, Ireland and several other European and Latin American nations (France, CAC, Tejas, LA, etc). I agree -- if Greece really and truly wants to persue a deal made by a general (not the RTC's government) who had either already lost or would soon lose said territory in battle, then yes they should try to convince as many countries as possible that the RTC are the legitimate authorities in the region and that, contrary to fact, there are actually no rebels and no freedom movement and no nascent government in place. If I were the Greek government, I would have sent word to Bambarilya that the Emperor is Not Amused by the sour deal and he'd better repay with interest the money we paid to him in the first place. And that if this doesn't happen, some Greek black-ops lads with sinister looking black bags filled with all sorts wonderful gizmoes will find him, be it in a club or private dinner at home and make sure that various buts of him are injured and broken until he shall have wished that he'd just paid up in the first place. A savvy government would simultaneously be talking about investment opportunities in the new country and its friends -- never hurts to hedge your bets. That way, if Bambarilya wins, they get to keep their land deal; if the C-P wins, Greece might win too by being part of the first investors. But they should hurry, American and other European investors are already talking with the local government... Elemtilas 21:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
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