Are euphoniums standard orchestral instruments *there*? Juan Martin Velez Linares 9:46, 10 September 2015 (CDT)
- Meh, why not. And glockenspiels. BoArthur 14:05, 13 November 2015 (PST)
- They are. Along with tubas, ophicleids and trombones (tenor and bass). That's your basic low brass section. What keys the euphoniums and tubas are in is a function of the regional / national tradition, as *here* (the only difference I'd expect is that the NAL will generally follow British trends and traditions of instrumentation; Louisianne and New Francy will likely follow French models of orchestration).
- Usually the ophicleide & euphonium players are "doublers", meaning that when a composer calls for one instrument or the other, they'll play that instrument. If the composer calls for a split (the tonal colours are quite different, after all), they'll divide accordingly. And of course, you'll also find very many tubists & euphoniumists that double on basstuba a/o saxhorn. The "period instrument" movement is every bit as strong *there* (and perhaps a little more robust even than *here* -- you rarely hear period performances of 19th century music here using such brass instruments outside of (US) Civil War reenacting bands), so concerts & recordings of early 19th century music are done very much in the vein of recordings of 17th and 18th century period instrument work.
- If I may ask, why the interest in euphoniums? Are you a euphoniumist by any chance? Elemtilas 14:50, 13 November 2015 (PST)
- Haha, no, actually. I'm just a huge instrument nerd. I'm a keyboardist myself, and I just picked up guitar and bass as well! I'd like to imagine my transdimensional counterpart plays violin, too (an instrument which I myself would like to learn someday). Add perhaps learning drums/percussion in the future and working on my rudimentary recorder skills, and that's a whole rock band--and then some! Juan Martín Vélez Linares 23:54, 13 Nov 2015 (CDT)
- Well, that makes two of us -- instrument nerds! Speaking of the recorder, that is another instrument family that is almost certainly still a standard orchestral instrument. Probably all Boehmed-up and so forth. I have long held the notion that (classically oriented) composers came eventually to understand and appreciate the tonal palettes available to them via transverse flute vs. block flute (and keyed brass vs. valved brass). Getting back to the euphonium, I am not certain who gets the credit *there* for inventing the valved instruments. Perhaps it wasn't Weiprecht and Moritz. Maybe Sarrus beat Saxe at his own game? Elemtilas 19:46, 17 November 2015 (PST)
- Is that so? Why exactly do you get this notion? Differing tastes from *here*, or simple musical conservatism, perhaps?
- Could be a number of things. Very often it was simply the case of whoever hawked his wares the loudest got the glory. Sax was certainly involved in a number of lawsuits. Perhaps he wasn't as lucky *there*? Perhaps someone else stole his idea and had better connections with those in charge of the military bands.
- As for different tastes, that is entirely possible. Broad bored tubas and euphoniums may not be normative; perhaps the narrower saxhorn type is more usual. I don't know what a usual orchestra consists of *there*, whether it grew to huge proportions as it did *here*.
- IMO keyless recorders work just fine,
- Sure. So do simple system flutes and curtals! I think the main problem with the recorder (vs. any kind of transverse flute) was one of dynamic range. If the recorder had undergone similar 'improvements' that the bassoon, clarinet, flute and oboe underwent, then we might well end up with some kind of Boehm-esque recorder alongside the transverse flute.
- although probably if recorders survived into the 19th century they would have been subjected to the inevitable trend of keyed woodwinds. Perhaps the keyed (and at one point Boehm-ised) flageolet might work as well, though I don't know if it's an overly English/French instrument to gain acceptance in Italy, the HRE, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire (those areas being of course the main centres of classical music in Europe *here* and presumably *there* as well).
- As far as A-H goes, there was already a native tradition of keyed recorder type instruments by the name of csakan. Perhaps some competition for the would-be recorder improvers!
- As for valved brass instruments, Wieprecht and Moritz didn't so much invent the valved brass instrument as they perfected and popularised the piston valve, but perhaps someone else stepped in and did those good men's work?
- Or beat them to the punch! People think the music industry in the 21st century is tough -- they don't know half the shennanigans those guys 200 years ago got up to!
- And as for the sarrusophone, Sarrus DID in fact beat Sax at his own game--it just turned out concertmasters didn't like the sound of his instrument much! Perhaps *there* it did gain wide acceptance in concert bands, and it became a standard component of wind/concert orchestras--though it's probably not a marching instrument. (After all, it's not very fun to go out marching only to get whacked in the face with a double reed!) Juan Martin Velez Linares 13:52, 18 Nov 2015 (CDT)
- I doubt it would, and for the same reasons as *here* -- finicky reeds and delicate keywork v. nearly indestructible mouthpiece and sturdy pistons. I guess I should have been clearer -- perhaps Sarrus (or some other maker) beat Sax at the saxhorn game! Got his own "invention" in first! A/o beat Sax in court during one of the inevitable legal squabbles... Elemtilas 16:00, 19 November 2015 (PST)
Beyonce is Louisiana Creole though... That's kind of what I was going for. I understand if you don't think it possible otherwise, though! Juan Martín Vélez Linares 15:59, 13 Nov 2015(CDT)