Hey Damon, nice stuff about Esperanto and Volapük. It doesn't however seem to be in accordance with some things we've established in the past, so I'm afraid we will have to make some slight modifications. I cannot tell you offhand what we decided (I'll look it up in the archives when I have some time), but what I remember is this:
- Esperanto was indeed created by a Venedic oculist named L.L. Zamenhof, but the language is essentially different from what it is *here*. It was mostly meant to become an inter-Romance language, IIRC.
- The lingua franca of science is, I think, Latino Sine Flexione. This is something John told us at several occasions.
- We never mentioned Volapük.
I thínk the story about Esperanto being very unsuccessful *there* and Volapük being the most successful IAL can stay, but not without mentioning LSF and (I think) Interlingua. I must add that my memory doesn't serve me well. Perhaps others can remember more details? Padraic?
Cheers, IJzeren Jan 14:08, 15 May 2005 (PDT)
- wasn't it supposed to be a sort of lingua-franca for use within the RTC ?--Marc Pasquin 17:34, 15 May 2005 (PDT)
- Sorry, I completely missed that question. Honestly, I've forgotten the details, but I don't think so. It was rather meant as a pan-Romance language, I think. --IJzeren Jan 11:12, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- How come a rational language like Esperanto did not catch on?! Have you ever tried to learn, let alone teach, Volapük (e. g. to children)? Lacks a bit of logic, since the story *here* is as we know it, and people are not very different *there* from *here*. Í personally believe that without the competition of English (and to a lesser degree French) as international lingua franca Esperanto would have fared quite well indeed. - Kyrmse 08:43, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- Like I said, Esperanto *there* is different. I don't know about Volapük, but the most frequently used auxlang *there* is Latino Sine Flexione. --IJzeren Jan 11:12, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- The concensus was that with so many language already existing, people prefered to learn a few languages that were already understood then one which needed to gain ground. Add to that a cultural reticence to standardisation *there* (why do you think they don't use metric ?) and you lose most incentive to have a lingua-franca.
- So esperanto was just a small project used by some entousiasts within the RTC who dreamed of a pan-romance union. Can't remember anyone mentioning volapuk on the list before so it might not even exist.--Marc Pasquin 11:19, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- Re:Consensus: yes, that's precisely what it is. Thanks for refreshing my memory!
- Re:Volapük: Damon wrote that article, and I can't see a reason why it couldn't exist *there*, and be a little more successful. The only thing I expressed my doubts about is that it was portrayed as the most successful auxlang, which is not in accordance with what we decided earlier. --IJzeren Jan 11:25, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
- one thing about that, if auxlangs *there* are not particularly popular, "most succesful" could simply mean a difference of a dozen speakers, a few years seniority and/or managing to get an article published in a national newspaper.--Marc Pasquin 11:54, 3 Jun 2005 (PDT)
What if Zamenhof had created, say, "Latinanto", a purely Romance-based lingua franca for those peoples who already speak Latin-derived languages anyway? It might be something like La cano chasis la caton (La hundo ĉasis la katon). Kyrmse 12:58, 15 January 2006 (PST)
- I guess those fools over in Latinanto-La-La-Land would have to duke it out with the powerhouse intellectuals who support the only logical choice, LSF. Just take a look -- compare the ultimate sensibility, worldwide appeal and ease of learning of LSF Le cane casis la cata with the barely sensible, agrammatical gibberish of L-o La cano chasis la caton! The choice is plain!!!, and every person of Europe and indeed the world shall come to understand the simplicity and logical plan of those who propose Latina Sine Flexione!!! All other pretenders shall fall by the wayside and their (needlessly thick and ungothroughsome) grammar books tossed in the dust bins of the planet!!!!!!!!!
- ... And the three strangers debated long amongst themselves, with much gesticulating and raised voices. None could understand what the visitors said, and the priests and astrologers were summoned at the satraps request, and he saith to them: "O wise men of the City! What manner men are these that come from the Wilderness of Shinar or else from the Kings Gate or else from the very heavens to our humble agora and dispute so amongst themselves in thuswise so vociferously? - that is what the people ask!" Long did the priests and elders of the city hearken to the visitors and their strange dialogue; but none could ken their meaning, for they used cunning foreign speech, saying things like "grammatical incompetency", "banal euroclonicity" and "worldwide appeal and ease of learning" ... -- Gosp. of the Prom., chap. 1
- Elemtilas 22:16, 15 January 2006 (PST)