Brazilian Cruzeiro & Bahian Peça
Ronald, I just noticed that that the Brazilian Cruzeiro is worth a wopping 4800 gr! That's ten whole ounces!! That's more than a mark (8 uc), and thus more than what is normally thought of as a coin. Surely it is not even minted in silver! Gold perhaps? Perhaps it is a unit of account rather than an actual coin? If so, perhaps this needs to be noted?
Also, I noticed a descrepency. Under Bahia, it states that a Rs is worth 3/4 gr. Now, 240 Rs yields 180 gr, yet under Money equivalency, it states that a Bahian Peça is worth 4800 gr. Surely, that's a mistake?
BTW, normally it is the main currency unit that has its silver content defined, not the smallest unit. The coins denominated in the smallest units don't normally have any silver in them at all because they are promissory instruments made of worthless metals like bronze or copper. 3/4 gr is really too small to be mentioned as the definition of the Rs and the R$ coins. In all likelyhood, they don't even have any silver in them at all. If I were you, I'd define the P and the C$ instead -- if at all they are minted due to their incredible values! If they're not minted, then I'd define the Es and the B$ instead.
Boreanesia 05:47, 7 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- You are right in noting that the Bahian peça was in wrong proportion to the real. In fact there are similar proportions in Bahia and in Brasil:
- You are right in noting that the Bahian peça was in wrong proportion to the real. In fact there are similar proportions in Bahia and in Brasil:
- I have corrected this in the Bahia section.
- It is the escudo of Equador (noted Eq) that is worth 240 réis. It is, in fact, the only currency among BA, BR, EQ and PA that uses the £/s/d scheme (1:20:240).
- The Bahian peça and the Brasilian cruzeiro are in fact units of account rather than actual coins, as are the Paranaän dobrão and conto de réis. This will also be noted.
- The silver equivalency of the real was mentioned because it is a kind of smallest common denominator of the Lusoamerican currencies (other that that of Uruguay - a special case). It is not, of course, minted in silver anywhere.
- Kyrmse 06:06, 8 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- For what it's worth, *here*, one proposed currency for the US was the mill equal to ¼ grain of silver, with the dollar being 1,440 mills. The reason for that proposal was that it allowed all the colonies' LSD-based currencies, with the exception of South Carolina, to be defined in whole numbers of said unit Nik 21:31, 21 November 2005 (PST)
Hong Kong money
Why is the dollar 1/5 pound? The Chinese Yuan is about 1/12 of a pound, so wouldn't it make more sense to define the Hong Kong dollar as 2/-, or perhaps 20d, near the Yuan? (Thus, 1 pound = 12 dollars = 8640 cash) I was under the impression that Hong Kong is a relatively recent acquisition, so that post-Oriental War inflation wouldn't explain the discrepency Nik 12:50, 25 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- The HK dollar is a fifth of a pound because the old Chinese dollar / yuan was equal to four shillings ninepence -- a shade under five shillings, which has often been colloquially refered to as a "daler" or dollar. We've had HK since the 19th century at least, so I guess in the grand scheme, it's a "recent acquisition"! ;)) Since the HK dollar has been around that long, it only makes sense that it should reflect the historical standard rather than the debased modern one. The modern yuan is one shilling 6½ pence, or thirteen to the pound -- the two yuans are quite diffent! Elemtilas
- Ah! For some reason, I thought Hong Kong *there* was a post-Oriental War acquisition. If it was 19th century, then that certainly makes sense Nik 17:16, 25 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- Happy to clear it up! We may have other post-Oriental War acquisitions -- but I don't know about any. I would suspect that Australasia has some kind of presence in the region, if not the FK. Elemtilas
Why such odd values for the banknotes? And are the values obligatory, or are constituent nations allowed to mint alternate values? Say, a 2/6 or 6d coin or a £5 note? Nik 01:46, 4 November 2005 (PST)
- The values of the banknotes given are for Oldenburg and other north German states, which are also familiar with SR Specie currency. The values should make it compatible with the Specie plus agio -- if my calculations are correct. I'm sure other constituents print other values. Boreanesia 02:14, 4 November 2005 (PST)
- Eeeh gads! I just re-did the calculations and I made a mistake on the agio rate. I'll correct this immediately! Boreanesia 02:28, 4 November 2005 (PST)
The old Republic's currency is given as the escudo = 16 reales = 256 maravedis, yet the Kingom's currency is the "Nuevo Peso", with 1 "Old Peso" being equal to 1 doble. What is this old peso? Was it ½ of an escudo, i.e., 1 escudo = 2 pesos = 16 reales = 256 maravedis?
Also, how did the maravedi end up as 1/16 real? *Here*, it was 1/34 of a real de vellón, 1/68 of a real de plata, and 1/85 of a real de plata fuerte, which was the real used in the Americas as 1/8 peso (Wikipedia:Spanish real) Nik 21:37, 21 November 2005 (PST)
- Hope this explains...
- The "old peso" that is equal to the new doble is the base metal or silver washed copper pieces that have been in circulation since the 1970s or so. Historically, this base metal "old peso" evolved from the earlier republican silver pesos (which early on were indeed two good silver pesos to the escudo of gold). The peso's silver content eroded slowly, so every year or two, the silver content stated on the coins decreased until it was such a miniscule amount that it was dropped from the coins legends.
- You can still find old charts that would have been posted in markets and shops that show the equivalencies of each year's iteration of the escudo. Prices were marked in current reales and you might be due a few maravedis in change if you had a couple older (and purer) real pieces in your pocket.
- The Tejan maravedi also underwent a number of changes since independence. It started out at 34 to the real but was changed because there was no need for such a small value coin (much like how we got rid of our half penny in the US) and 34 is not a friendly number to divide. When they revamped the copper coinage in 1902, they reduced the maravedi just a bit and later changed it to 120 to the escudo. That was seen as too large a coin (and also seen as too imperial British), so in 1916 changed it again to 16 to the real.
- 1828-1833 1 peso = 8 reales = 272 maravedi (1/34R)
- 1840-1844 1 peso = 8 reales = 272 maravedi (1/34R)
- 1844-1902 1 escudo = 16 reales = 544 maravedi (really the same as the previous) (1/34R)
- 1902-1910 1 escudo = 16 reales = 480 maravedi (1/30R)
- 1910-1916 1 escudo = 16 reales = 120 maravedi (1/7.5R)
- 1916-2003 1 escudo = 16 reales = 256 maravedi (1/16R)
- 2003-2006 1 nuevo peso = 8 reales = 96 viejos pesos = 96 dobles (1/12R)
- 2006- 1 peso = 8 reales = 96 dobles
- It is interesting to note that the most modern iteration of the Tejan peso is deliberately modelled after the Commonwealth shilling; not to mention the 1/96R doble, which is exactly equal to one Commonwealth double 1/8d.!
Why does the FK (and NAL) list 10/- and 12/- among silver coins? Those would be over two ounces of silver! Surely such large values should be in banknotes, or just not used? Nik 22:28, 5 December 2005 (PST)
- Quite so!! The silver half knicker (10/-) and the English quadruple leopard (12/-) are obviously not intended to be circulating coins! It is typical to stike a fancy coronation pieces in these denominations for the discerning collector (i.e., anyone who can afford to shell out £5 for the priviledge). It should be noted that such coins are quite thin. As you say, it's quite a lot of silver, and the coins are pretty large in diameter -- lots of room for a detailed image!
- Silver coins above 2/6 are found only very vèry rarely. A shop keeper might get a 5/- piece every couple months for example.
Also, how do the gold coins work? Are they actual circulating coins, or are they more like bullion? For Japan, I assumed that the gold coins were actually bullion coins worth far more than face value Nik 22:28, 5 December 2005 (PST)
- There are actual circulating gold coins. It's up to Japan whether they want their gold coins to be "non-circulating legal tender" or pure bullion issues. In the FK, we do have pound coins. It's not like you see that many, as pound notes are more common and the pound is of sufficiently high value that most moderns don't see more than a few at a time (like $10 or $20 notes *here*). Most of the gold coins listed are commemorative denominations only. Gold is almost nèver seen in southeastern Kemr and Scotland. Both prefer 10/- and £1 notes. England and Kemr also prefer pound notes, but pound coins are sometimes seen.
- Shilling denominated coins aren't often seen in SE Kemr either, as they prefer the smaller valued notes there.
- Elemtilas 16:17, 12 December 2005 (PST)
- The question I had with circulating gold coins is that it would pose a problem with fluctuating gold values. If the value of gold rose, then the coins' gold content would exceed their face value, and they'd tend to be melted down or horded. Or is the gold content specifically chosen to be less than £1 worth of gold for a £1 coin? Nik 18:43, 12 December 2005 (PST)
- I don't know how it actually works, as I'm not an economist. I know that silver and gold have cocirculated in the economy at roughly the same ratio (15:1) for a vèry long time. Any fluctuations in value are quite small and are generally taken care of by starting out with coins whose metal content is not quite equal to face value, and by occasional tweakage of the metal content of the coins. I'm positing that this is still the case *there*, without actually knowing how it all works (and quite frankly, I ain't all that interested in this particular level of detail!). (Sorry for the late response!) Elemtilas 22:24, 24 February 2006 (PST)
- Well, the problem is that *here*, the discovery of large silver deposits skewed the ratio, reducing the value of silver relative to gold. It's unlikely that that wouldn't've happened *there*. Which suggests that, at the very least, the ratio would have to be significantly different (*here*, the ratio is around 60:1 - 57.3888:1 is the ratio right now - of course, with silver used in money *there*, it's likely that silver's value would be higher, due to greater demand, but likely not *that* much higher). At any rate, chances are, the gold coins would have to be significantly smaller than they were in the 19th century, and any 19th century gold coins would be either valued above face value, or melted down.
- For comparison, the guinea was worth 20 shillings when first introduced. Its value rose steadily, even after being decreased in size, at one point spiking at a whopping 30 shillings before it eventually stabilized at 21/6, and was rounded down to 21/- by Royal Proclaimation in 1717. It was really only for a couple centuries that a stable ratio existed, and I'm skeptical that it could remain sufficiently stable for currency purposes today Nik 22:49, 24 February 2006 (PST)
- That's part of the wonder of IB. Things that almost certainly couldn't happen *here* end up being successful *there*. Perhaps this is just one example. It might be that there is no open market for gold *there* -- after all, when everybody's using the same stuff for their money, and would only accept foreign money made of that same stuff, it behooves all to cap the price of that stuff (more or less what was going on *here*). Elemtilas 05:27, 25 February 2006 (PST)
1 yuan = 720 cash? Where's this from? Wouldn't a yuan-jiao-fen system be more... Chinese?
- From here! The Spanish dollar, AKA yuan, was equal to 720 of the traditional cash coins ... or at least, it was until the opium trade caused silver to flow out of the country, increasing the ratio dramatically. I don't know if the opium trade didn't happen *there* or if there was some revaluation at some point or what Nik 23:41, 5 December 2005 (PST)
- In response to thee, I'll just move down here a similar question that was asked last August:
I suddenly find I cannot understand a word of the stuff on the SR currencies (which have magically migrated to the top of the page, I note ;o) ). Would it be possible to explain the technical terms a little more fully at all? As they stand I'm finding them a little bit impenetrable! Deiniol 12:34, 5 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- Well, foreigners always like to make things more complicated than they need be. What do you find particularly ungothroughsome? Elemtilas
- AFAICT, I am only using terms that have already been defined in this wiki. Weights and measures can be found in the SI page. Furthermore, I have defined taille and traite at the very top of the Currency page. What other terms do you need defined? Boreanesia 22:30, 6 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Do people prefer to use cash than cheques in IB? Because there are some seriously high-denomination notes. --Quentin 04:57, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
QAA. I imagine that things work *there* like they did *here* in the 1980's. Just because there are large denomination bills doesn't mean they're highly circulated and in large volumes. Look at here's $500 and $1000 bills. They exist, but I've not seen one in my thirty years of life. BoArthur 09:57, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
- I assume this is because the banknotes over 100 dollars are no longer printed. On the other hand notes of 500 Euros are printed and are relatively common in the European countries that uses Euro. The note of 500 lats (Latvian currency) is of even higher value than is 500 Euros (500 lats perhaps close in value to 1000 dollars), but I have seen such banknotes in Latvia also. So in the real world it depends on country I guess. I don't know about IB, I don't think it was decided, therefore, if you are interested in it, you can maybe create more proposals about the monetary system - for example, why credit cards are unpopular (if you believe they would be) and so on. Abdul-aziz 10:09, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
- Comment - At least in the UK, there are only £50 notes, and that's about $100 US or £2 FK. There are €500 notes, but that's about £300 UK, $600 US or £15.
- Credit cards were discussed at some length on the Conculture Board, I believe. They're not popular because there is not nearly the computer power there that there is here. For that matter, the world is very different. Trust me when I say, most people use cash. BoArthur 16:17, 24 June 2006 (PDT)
- Hey, a hundred years ago, $100 was worth a couple thousand in today's money, but it still circulated. There's been a lot less inflation *there* than *here*, so very-high-value bills would still be around Nik 20:14, 17 September 2006 (PDT)
This page is above the generally tolerated limit for Wiki pages. Although the value info is probably OK, the conversion, should it have its own page and be given a proper HTML table rather than the ASCII setup we have now?
The Commonwealth currency page was started by me. I can't really going messing around with what Padraig has written, but it needs cleanup. It would be nice if it read like what Nik did on Japanese currency which lays out quite nicely all the coins, notes and their designs. --Quentin 04:22, 17 September 2006 (PDT)
This page had for South Africa and South-West Africa
1 pound = 12 shillings = 240 pence
1 pond = 12 schillings = 240 pennies
I assume that that's an error, and it should be 20 shillings. I changed it to that. Nik 22:23, 25 January 2007 (PST)
Equivalencies to *here*
1 - are relative prices different there? For instance is silver more valuable there anyway? Perhaps the IB economy is very different. For instance, I think the area of mid-west Canada is less populous, up in the UT, so perhaps there's less wheat grown there? Also, the population of the world I think is lower in IB (although concentrated differently, as Antarctica has a permanent population and ).
- I'm sure there may be some differences in relative prices between *here* and *there*. Oil is probably lower there, cos they haven't got all the mid-east crises we have *here* and there are no restrictions on drilling in Antarctica, Alaska and the Gulf (all of which are entirely or partially limited *here*). I would hesitate to comment on the value of silver *there* vis a vis *here*, because *here* it, and all the other precious and semiprecious metals are currently very high priced. Gold that could be bought for a couple hundred dollars not too long ago is now approaching a thousand.
- You're right in that the economies of IB are different. Probably much more socialised in some respects than *here*; but seemingly not burdensomly so. Keeping in mind that Les Plaines _is_ the breadbasket of the NAL, and that LA has traditionally been (and in all honesty, continues to be) unstable, it's unlikely that LA is as effective a producer of food as it could be (compared to *here*'s midwest). I suspect that the eastern regions of the NAL are even now more agricultural than *here*.
2 - should we include currency equivalencies to *here*? For instance, if silver has a similar value, 1 IB grain of silver is worth ~2.276 US cents and one FK Pound is ~$50 US or $25 UK.
- We have intentionally avoided formal currency equivalents because, quite frankly, *here*'s currencies and *there*'s currencies have no commonality. An American dollar is only worth anything because the US is a strong and stable country with a good economy. An American pound is valuable, not only because the NAL is a fairly large and strong economy, but also because its pound contains a certain amount of gold and that gold is worth the same whether you'd ambling along the quaint shops of Caroll Boulevard in Georgetown or whether you're wandering the bazaar of Mosquito Coast. Even if you convert that amount of gold to Japanese loes, you still have a pound worth of metal after it sits for a month. If I buy Japanese yen with a $1 bill, I have no guarantee of getting a dollar back after a month.
- Purely for informal purposes, we use an approximation of £FK1 = somewhere around the $US10 to $US20 range. This information is not to be included in any currency chart because it's simply a "game token" that helps us get a rough idea of what a pound can buy; it is not a statement of definitive relative worth.
- Elemtilas 11:17, 26 May 2007 (PDT)
RTC banknoteFollow by white rabbit 13:48, 1 February 2008 (PST)
- I like it! Elemtilas 09:00, 2 February 2008 (PST)
Wow, it looks marvellous! Two little nitpicks regarding the Wenedyk, though:
- The name of the bank: this should be Bank Centrały RDK, or even Bank Centrały Rzeipybiełczej Dwar Korunar - both would be correct. Note that Erdeka is not the formal name of the state, rather something you can compare to the Polish expression Peerel, in other words, not something one would use on a banknote.
- Instead of Koptały ciozurnik it would be better to write Ciozurnik koptały.
- Here you have, correct spelling. I'm glad that you like it. I would truly honored if add this to your page. Follow by white rabbit 10:58, 2 February 2008 (PST)
Greek Currency Changes
Curious: Why was the specification for Greek currency changed? It is now really and truly out of proportion. The new mina is now equivalent to 6 EF livres. Presumably megalomanic emperor = new and inflated specification! Elemtilas 18:43, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- No it just means more revenue is coming in which can make the mina worth even more in a global market. I'm sorry if there's mistakes, I have no idea about money except that it's useful Misterxeight 19:05, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- More revenue just means you have more minas, not that the mina is worth more. This is a hard currency world, not a fiat currency world. Before you edit things that you don't understand, please do some research and ask questions. Common sense stuff! Elemtilas 21:10, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
G8 or something similar
I believe *there* might exist some international organisation to discuss ecenomical and political issues like the G8 here. Possibly this group wouldn't be made of indivudual nations but by international currency blocks (see the map of the currency blocks).
Guess these would gather regularly in summits made by heads of state or government chosen among the blocks' member states. Otherwise these summits would have a very large number of political leaders. Possibly these leaders would be chosen, perhaps among the most significant economies. For example the CoN would possibly chose leaders from FK, NAL or Australasia (I think these are the most powerful economies in the CoN) or the European Federation would chose leaders from HRE or France. It seems to me more plausible CoN to chose a representant from FK than to chose a representant from Toga or Grand Fenwick and so on.
This international organisation could be called something like Block of the 7, or B7 for short. Of course being english language not so dominant *there* as *here* surely the B7 would have other names according to other languages.
Just a sugestion.--Pedromoderno 14:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)