Lla Dafern/Archive 9

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Bengwenid! Bieńwięty! Moyn moyn! Bemmeinde! Pemmenut! Benvenuto! Welcome!

This is Lla Dafern, or, as the Saxon invaders call it, The Pub. It is one of many places where the members of Ill Bethisad enjoy meeting each other informally. It is the place where opinions can be exchanged and questions can be asked concerning Ill Bethisad in general or about topics that do not fit in the Talk compartment of individual wiki pages. It is also the place where technical questions can be asked to the moderators of this wiki.

THE MENU: Our chef, whose nationality for reasons of security will remain undisclosed, offers you a broad assortiment of Helvetian and other specialties, such as Montreiano Sea Elephant steaks with rended blubber, or if you prefer a side of Pacific white sided dolphin babyback ribs. He will be more than happy to give you a demonstration of his culinary talents. Just keep your health insurance card ready! And if you aren't particularly hungry today, he will also happily treat you on a rosy-scented Jervan Muscatel, a cool Dumnonian cider, a warm Irish or a cold Batavian beer, or, if you are amongst the more daring, a true Venedic jekwiała. For those who appreciate fine wines we carry the rich red wines of Bordeaux and les Ozarques, Brandy or Montignac, and bin ruper from Hostreht in Xliponia. For the discerning, a good 1984 vintage Arvorec anaf aval is recommended as an apéritif. Especially for minors and teetotallers we also serve Coke, orange juice, goat milk, Italian Limonata, and Neofrancian Spruce beer. If you prefer a more active pursuit to accompany your imbibition, there's a rousing game of puir-man whummlin going on out back. There's even an occasional pickup match of hibercrosse. Cheerio!

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The current Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight is: Franco-Prussian War.   Every fortnight a different topic, stub or non-existent article is picked by nomination.
Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can. 


2005: February – July | August – September | October | November | December
2006: January | February | March | April | May | June | July – September | October – December
2007: January – June | July – December
2008: January – June | July – December



I'm starting to compile a CoN template and to put the Nation template on CoN nation pages. --Quentin 10:08, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

This is by no means complete:

Commonwealth flag   Members of the Commonwealth of Nations   Commonwealth flag
English Members
 English-Australia | East Caribbean Province | England | English Guyana | Gibraltar | Calcutta | Massachussets Bay | Rhode Island | Connecticut | Kent | Pennsylvaania | Ontario | Virginia | Carolina | Jamaica | Jacobia | Illinoise | Oxbridge | South Africa | Cape Green | Goodyear Island | Hong Kong | Kingdom of Mauritius | Mosquito Coast | The Salomon Islands | The Seychelles | Socotra | Saint Thomas and Prince | Aotearoa  
Scottish Members
 Kingsland | East Caribbean Province | Bombay | Alba Nuadh | Scotland | Aotearoa  
Cambrian Members
 New Kemr di'll Ostr | Cambrian Guyana | Madras | Ter Mair | Pennsylvaania | Bahamas | Tenisi | Tortuga Islands | West Caribbean Province | Ascension Island | Cambrian Arctic Ocean Territory | Cambrian Indian Ocean Territory | Rhodesia  
Other Full members
 Madagascar | Malta | Margarita Islands | Tahiti | Toga | Grand Fenwick | Somer Islands | Swan Islands | Great Corridor Territory  
Associate Members
 Alyaska | Oregon | Ireland | Armorica | Bharatij Samrazj | Bengal | Thiruvithankur | Srivijaya  
I can't really comment on the contents, but it lóóks nice! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:28, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
The appearane is based on all other similar templates. As for contents who can help? PB? --Quentin 12:30, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

I'll also have to fix all those red links. --Quentin 10:37, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

No please, don't! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:28, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
I meant if they were pointing to one thing and there was an article on the same topic under a different name. --Quentin 12:29, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

I think Aotearoa should be listed under "other full members" as its link is to the queen of england and scotland directly and not to one of the kingdoms in particular.

Great Corridor Territory should probably not be included as its status is a bit complex.

I realy don't think that Alyeska would be a commonwealth member, they may have a large number of their population of FK *descent* but from what I have read, it was at no point under any of the kingdoms' rule. I could understand if Oregon had some sort of status and reasons akin to Ireland but personnaly, I don't think that it should be a member either.

Incidently, why is it that the number of members is so disparate between the 3 kingdoms (in the sense of historical justification, not list member choices).--Marc Pasquin 17:36, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

I think part of that is that he has all the NAL provinces listed separately, and a number of those are English. I'm not sure why that is. Could you enlighten us, Quentin? The NAL-SLC itself is a member state. Otherwise, I simply think that it was mostly the English and then the Kemrese that expanded into the wide world during the (European) Age of Exploration. Elemtilas 18:30, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
I'm sorry. I didn't realise all of the NAL would be part of the Commonwealth - I thought only the English, Cambrian and Scottish bits would. --Quentin 23:30, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
Yes -- it's an independent country, not just a collection of disparate dominions. Same for Australasia below. And yes, the Scandinavian non-aligned provinces are also part of the deal, not just the British ones.
It remains to be seen whether or not the NAL as a whole is or could even be a member state of the SR! I don't think this issue was ever raised before. Heaven forbid the SR and the CoN ever come to blows! Elemtilas 12:07, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
According to this Alyeska is an associate member, along with Oregon. --Quentin 23:32, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
New version -
Commonwealth flag   Members of the Commonwealth of Nations   Commonwealth flag
English Members
  Calcutta | East Caribbean Province (including Montserrat, a part of Ireland) | England | English Australia | English Guyana | Gibraltar | Hong Kong | Kingdom of Mauritius | Mosquito Coast | Providence Islands | The Salomon Islands | The Seychelles | Socotra | Somer Islands | Southwest Africa | Swan Islands | Wallace Cay  
Scottish Members
  Bombay | East Caribbean Province | Kingsland | Scotland  
Cambrian Members
  Ascension Island | Cambrian Arctic Ocean Territory | Cambrian Guyana | Cambrian Indian Ocean Territory | Kemr | New Kemr di'll Ostr | Madras | Mutapa | Tortuga Islands | West Caribbean Province  
Other Full members
  Aotearoa | Cyprus | Fiji | Grand Fenwick | Indo-British Union | Madagascar | Malta | Margarita Islands | NAL-SLC | South Africa | Tahiti | Toga  
Associate Members
  Alyaska | Armorica | Bharatij Samrazj | Bengal | Ireland (including Guereintia, excluding Montserrat) | Oregon | Thiruvithankur | Xrivizaja  

Isn't Australasia itself a member-state also? Nik 00:02, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

Good point. I'll fix that. --Quentin 01:19, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
If no-one has objections, I'll start using this. OK? --Quentin 12:04, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
Before you do, I'd like to make sure Alyeska inclusion might not just have been a mistake made somewhere (not by you). Oregon's status came up on its talk page but doesn't seem to have been resolved. Still think Aotearoa shouldn't be under any kingdoms. --Marc Pasquin 18:58, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

I think Alyeska's inclusion as an "associate member" was just due to their pegging the ruble to 5/- Commonwealth Nik 19:41, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

But then, so is the NF piasse although the Intendancy is surely not a member (associate or otherwise). The reason I would suspect Alyeska did so is the same as NF: trade. Since most commerce would be done with one's neighbour then europe, it would make sense to have a currency which trade on par. To give an example, unlike Australia, Canada *here* originaly used the dollar for just that reason (although later change in monatery value has had it fluctuate wildly). The key to remember is that is not pegged per say to the value of another currency, it is simply value based on the same quantity of silver or gold per unit. --Marc Pasquin 19:55, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
For that matter, LA would be too, and we're decided NOT part of the NALiens! (No matter what Nik's spurious article stated.) BoArthur 20:11, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
Spurious? I had that on very good authority, straight from Jean-François Young's barber's neighbor's cousin's girlfriend's best friend's sister's husband's mother's brother! Nik 20:19, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
No offense meant. Now that you've so clearly delineated the arrival of the story, I can see that it's completely bona fide and I retract my comment of spurious! BoArthur 13:54, 4 April 2006 (PDT)


Well, I've finally gotten around to a somewhat more detailed description of Ukraine's history. It's here. Because of the recent talk about "IB's dark underbelly", I think I have created a genuine monster: Stanislav Chop, leader of the SLOB in the years 1950-1961. I'm quite satisfied with the name CHOP: it's a genuine Ukrainian name, but it contains two puns at a time (guess which)!

Also, experts on GW2 might want to check that part. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 15:30, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

As a former Ukranian national, I like the story, however I have very serious issue with flag. Since the history of the Ukraine "here" and "there" somwhat similar to the begining of the 20th century, the flag of the SLOB(?)cannot have trident nor yellow color. The Trident (embodiment of word VOLYA or "freedom.") is a upfront to Russia, as well yellow color on the flag. I propose in rule of SNORist backed SLOB to change the flag by removing the Trident and make it red-blue.

>User talk:Lordziba April 03, 2006.

Yes, I can see your point. And I have to admit, the tryzub on the SLOB flag seems somewhat out of place. But have you read the discussion at Talk:Ukraine?
In any case, given my recent discoveries about the nature of the SLOB regime, I feel slightly inclined to adopt your proposal. But before that, I'd also like to hear Marc's opinion.
Where are you from in Ukraine, BTW? —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 16:05, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
South-West region called Podolye or Podillya, varies of its Russian or Ukranian root of the word. Oh, and I did write my opinion on the Marc's flag propsal in the Talk:Ukraine. And one more thing, this just hit me,it would be cool to add SNOR cross at the center of the falcon. User talk:Lordziba April 03, 2006.
The trident appears on old COA which is why I chose it as a nationalistic symbols, same for yellow. If however around the time in question it was indeed used with anti-russian intent, probably not a good chose then. I'd go with black though, red might have still some "revolutionary" bagage to it. --Marc Pasquin 18:48, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

St George's cross.

How is this used in IB? The three lions seem more popular but many commonwealth flags hold the St George's cross. --Quentin 23:29, 2 April 2006 (PDT)

as per the chart made by yours truly, its use in the colonial ensign and war ensign:
--Marc Pasquin 18:45, 3 April 2006 (PDT)


The lack of information on the wiki concerning computing is in part because I haven't had as much time as I'd like to work on IB. There's an awful lot more in my head and in the list archives than you'll find here. To sum things up, computing in IB is better said to be differently advanced than more advanced, though because the market for consumer machines took longer to take off. Where computing in IB excels is that it's concentrated on making things highly parallel rather than just plain fast. A few highlights: IB has had greater successes in the field of AI than we have *here*; von Neumann didn't die from cancer and Turing wasn't forced to take his own life, and both ended up working together at the Institute for Advanced Studies in the School of Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, and (like Schroedinger), took up Irish citizenship.

Now, IB hasn't had the same pressures upon it from a military perspective to push practical computing forward, so much of the work has been highly theoretical. However, as Daniel notes, you can expect IB to outstrip us within 20 years. *There*'s internet-equivalent, an t-Idirlíon, is beginning to get noticed after an as yet unnamed Kemrese physicist created a hypertext system similar to the WWW *there* during the abortive Euroconsortium space program, and the network, integrated as it now is with the consumer Teiliteacs/Bycopel system has been used in academia and business for the last two decades.

Appearences can be deceiving. :-) --Kgaughan 06:06, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

Keith, I'm going to create an introductory article for both von Neumann and Turing; I will write them up until the divergences you site, adjusting them to fit history of IB. To do this, I have a couple of questions:
  1. Turing not "forced to take his own life;" would that mean that he was living in Kemr or somesuch? The causes of his life-taking *here* would relate to Oscar Wilde; Do you have something in mind as to how he was not put through the ordeal that lead to his death?
  2. How did Erwin Schrödinger end up in Ireland?
The latter is quite simple, really. You build two identical wardrobes, one in Kemr and one in Ireland. Dr Schroedinger gets in the one in Kemr and both boxes are closed tight. Ask a random observer which box is he is actually in? The Kemrese or the Irish box? Nobody knows! The only way to find out for sure is open the Irish box, and hey presto, there's Dr Schroedinger, just like he always was.
I just hope that computers are up to the tasks I've imagined they'd be used for in medicine! Elemtilas 12:16, 3 April 2006 (PDT)</gallery>
Ah, but what if we open up the boxes and find Dr. Schrödinger dead not only in Kemr but in Ireland? (thanks for the chuckle on that one, P. BoArthur
Hm. That would be a shame twice over! But that's the risk you take when you mess about with quantum. Elemtilas 14:18, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

Just a thought. Turing's life might have been impacted by the existence of the Green Carnation Party. Zahir 14:23, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

That's integral to what I'll be writing up for Turing.  :) Great minds think alike.BoArthur 15:44, 4 April 2006 (PDT)


What are these Tesla generators? --Quentin 13:59, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

See Wikipedia:Nikola_Tesla. In IB, there is no question that Tesla's ideas work, whether or not they work in the primary world. A Tesla Generator is a poorly understood and better-left-unexplained machine for generating electricity. This is one of two assumptions we've made about the natural world *there* that differ from *here*. Elemtilas 14:58, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
More specifically, see Tesla Generators! Elemtilas 15:04, 3 April 2006 (PDT)
What's the other assumption we've made? Nik 18:57, 3 April 2006 (PDT)

American SNOR

I'm making proposals related to the American Snorist party on the talk page- feel free to comment. --Quentin 11:53, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

Done. --Quentin 12:06, 4 April 2006 (PDT)
Thought this makes a good protest-song - [1] -Quentin 12:09, 4 April 2006 (PDT)
No need to delete this, Quentin...I think people just haven't noticed it, and the person I know who's most interested in the American Snorist part would be Zahir. Comments, Herr Doctor? BoArthur 07:33, 25 April 2006 (PDT)
I've already offered comments. The American Snorists aren't arch-conservative or anything akin to neocons. They are more racial mystic fascists (like the Nazis). The protest song is fine and dandy, but seems more appropriate for Black Star Societies than the American Snorists, who are after all relatively young. Zahir 09:31, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

To Be Deleted?

There've been a number of graphics that have been tagged as "TO BE DELETED." I don't know if it's just as a sysop/admin, but can't everyone upload a newer version of the file and thus overwrite the old version that should be removed, thus killing two birds with a stone, and for that matter, making life a lot easier if the file is linked to all over the place? BoArthur 21:40, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

Dan certainly has a point here. Every image page has the text "Upload a new version of this file". Using that feature has the advantage that you can follow the different versions of an image, and that you don't need to change all the pages that link to it. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 03:05, 5 April 2006 (PDT)
I usualy do that but the images I replaced with PNGs were GIFs. --Marc Pasquin 05:36, 5 April 2006 (PDT)
Good point, I didn't think of that! Okay, I'll delete them. Here's one other small request, though: would you mind using the {{delete}} tag in such cases? That way, the image in question will automatically end up in a special category for that.
Nice work BTW, this new SNOR flag. Much better than the previous one! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 07:35, 5 April 2006 (PDT)


We now have over 2,000 articles (2,004 right now, to be precise). It was my Pak Ol-Uañ that hit the 2,000 mark. Nik 22:45, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

QUICK! DELETE SOME! We always seem to, anyway. We've nearly had 2k several times now, and right as we got close, we'd have a massive purge. BoArthur

Spam filter

I tried to change the link on "laurentian" to reach my page but it seem to trigger the spam filter. Is it due to the domain name or does it apply to all sites now ? --Marc Pasquin 10:00, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

Spam filter? What's that? Nik 14:47, 18 April 2006 (PDT)
not sure. When I tried to edit said page with the new adress, I got a message saying that. --Marc Pasquin 06:40, 25 April 2006 (PDT)

North Slavic languages

I have created the North Slavic languages page. Discussion solicited.

Pavel Iosad
Hey Pavel, good to have you back here! How have you been faring?
Perhaps it's just coincidence, but yesterday I created a Langmaker entry for Skuodian, here. Please correct, expand etc.
As for North Slavic languages, I'll see what I can do. In the meantime: any progress with Skuodian/Manoeg/anything else? How's Mr. Kotau doing?
Cheers, —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 05:55, 19 April 2006 (PDT)
Skuodian lots of notes, nothing systematic, Manoeg ditto (even more chaotic). Mr. Kotau seems to be heading for re-election (what would you expect if your per capita GDP rose by 250% in four years? ;)) But actually I happen to be stuck between three deadlines, and three weeks left to write up my year paper (which will have to be defended publicly, and since it's after 4 years, it probably counts as a BA dissertation)! Pavel Iosad

Is this any good in IB?

<hiero>S29-Z7-U29-G1-Z6</hiero> --Quentin 12:59, 27 April 2006 (PDT)

...What is it? Where did you get it? What's it supposed to be? BoArthur 13:08, 27 April 2006 (PDT)

Hmm, it gets 33 google hits ( http://www.google.lt/search?hl=lt&q=S29-Z7-U29-G1-Z6&meta= ). It has something to do with Egyptian or Japanese hierogliphs or TV series "Lost" it seems. Abdul-aziz 13:14, 27 April 2006 (PDT)
No idea what this is all about. Please tell us what you are referring to! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 05:04, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
The hiero tag is broken. See ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:4836.03 ) to see what it should look like. Is this an old version of MWiki we're using? Oh, and Abdul-Aziz, are you lithuanian? --Quentin 05:08, 28 April 2006 (PDT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_S29.png http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_Z7.png http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_U29.png http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_G1.png http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_Z6.png

The hiero tag is a Wikipedia extension, I believe. It's not even supposed to be working here. Doesn't matter, here is the image, to the right. It doesn't explain things much, though.
And yes, Abdul-Aziz is Lithuanian. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 05:19, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
What does it say? --Sikulu 05:48, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Dunno. Do you know? And what about this?


Anyway does anyone know how this works in IB?

It's hard to say unless we know what you're asking. How do you mean "how this works in IB"? Doobieous 07:49, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Are you asking about hieroglyphic ? As they predate any of IB's POD, they would be no difference. --Marc Pasquin 09:03, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
It is apparently a prop from the American television programme "Lost". I pray fervently that IB hasn't been infected by the inanity of "reality" tv. Thus, if all goes well, this machine will not even exist in IB. Elemtilas 09:11, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
  • Lost isn't reality TV.
Please yourself! NBC seems to be billing "Lost" as reality tv stripped down to its bare essentials. Most of the references to the show call it a "reality" show.
  • I'm not talking about Lost.
Then why show a prop from the show? TheKMan wrote on your Wikipedia user page "Hi, here's a screencap of the hieroglyphics from Lost" and gave a link to here which notes that it is an image, presumably of a prop, from "Lost".
Dûnein is the place for flipclocks, eh? Or am I wrong? I think in IB I'd live in Durham anyway, not Dûnein. --Quentin 10:37, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
The preceeding was about flipclocks ? Quentin, I don't mean to insult you but its often hard to figure out what you are asking about. --Marc Pasquin 11:06, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
For once, I'm 100% with you, Marc. I have no idea what Quentin is getting at. Durham is in England both *here* and *there*. What does Dunein have to do with ány of this nonsense?, least of all hieroglyphic counters on a US "reality" tv show! If you can't ask a plain question, you might do better not to ask anything at all! Elemtilas 11:23, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
In this case I can only echo what Marc and Padraic wrote. So PLEASE explain what you're hinting at! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 13:13, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Sweet holy Jesus, Quentin. Explain what the hell you're talking about- words aren't rationed and we can't all follow your train of thought: please stop being so cryptic as it's highly irritating. And sign your comments. Deiniol 14:39, 28 April 2006 (PDT)

Lost is not a reality TV but TV series. As for the hierogliphs, I don't think we should be attacking Quentin for what he said. Right now however it is indeed quite hard to understand the meaning of the question however. If it will be explained more maybe it will be easier to answer. What meaning would you suggest for these hierogliphs in the IB? Abdul-aziz 13:52, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

I don't think *we* are attacking Quentin. He's being scolded for being incredibly vague when asking questions. Asking "Is this any good in IB" and showing a flip clock with Egyptian characters could've gone in any number of directions like "What if clocks used Egyptian characters" or "Most people write in Egyptian" or "would the plot of Lost be good for real events *there*?" So, Quentin: Next time you ask a question, be SPECIFIC about what you're asking. Doobieous 14:29, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

Ancient History

This section deserves to be separate from the previous discussion...

Lost is definitely not reality t.v., but a wonderfully spooky and interesting drama that seems (odd as it may seem) like a cross between "Lord of the Flies," "The Prisoner" and "Twin Peaks." Having said that, the idea this was about flipclocks baffles me. Quentin, you seem like a nice enough guy, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about here. Zahir 12:28, 28 April 2006 (PDT)

...Well, if this is about incorporating ideas from TV series, no matter how good and/or interesting, into IB, I'd be against that. But on the other hand, there's nothing against philosophising a little about what serial X might have looked like *there*! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 13:13, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
I'm sorry, my English isn't great, I find things hard to express. I'll try to make myself clear:
  • What I'm wondering is, what if ancient Egyptian was not a Semitic language? We have a Germanic Czech, a Romance Polish etc, etc… I was wondering if the history of Ancient Egypt was different. Does anyone know about Alexander the Great in IB?
  • While we're at it, I would be interested in writing about a program like Lost. But someone who actually watches it would be a better bet.
I'm sorry I'm breve, cut and to the point. Maybe it reflects on my nature.
Sorry, I forgot to sign. I seem to do that a lot. And forget the Minor edit key. By the way, When I mentioned Alexander the Great, I was thinking about a Ancient Egyptian related to Greek. What if the Ptolemid/Selucid split happened differently? --Quentin 05:16, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Actually, take a look at Daniel 11 if you have a Bible to hand. We wouldn't want to mess up something that interferes with biblical history? --Quentin 06:14, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
First of all, I would encourage you to write up a program "like" Lost but not identical to same. That you don't watch it might mean you'd actually come up with something original.
That's what I was intending. I can see it being a Japanese programme. Kanawiki<->Nittatò. --Quentin 08:40, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Second, I'm no expert on languages but was/is ancient Egyptian Semetic?
Alexander the Great was a Greek, or at least a Hellene, more specifically a Macedonian. He conquered Egypt but was not himself Egyptian. I think I'm probably speaking for everyone when I say that changing events BCE (Before the Common Era) is problematical but not impossible. For example, suppose Alexander's father had not been assassinated? But I'd have to see a specific proposal before commenting further. I don't think Alexander the Great has been mentioned much, although there are definitely cities named Alexandria in IB, including the one in Egypt. Zahir 07:08, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Maybe I'm wrong there. --Quentin 08:40, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Ah, OK, now I at least understand what you are hinting at. Indeed, Ancient Egyptian was a Semitic language. But even if it wasn't, we should leave it alone. Ill Bethisad is based on certain principles, mostly on Romance catching on in Britain (and a bit in Transdanubia was well). Any history older than that should be left alone, as it would jeopardise our very basics. Instead of inventing new points of divergence, it's better to stick to the ones we have, and use thém as a basis for further differentiation.
As for *there*'s version of Lost, that's something I can only encourage. I haven't seen it either, but that might as well be an advantage. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 09:21, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Gocha. --Quentin 10:05, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Actually, Ancient Egyptian isn't Semitic. It forms a seperate subgrouping of the Afro-Asiatic family. Or, put another way, if Afro-Asiatic is Indo-European then the Semitic family is Germanic and the Egyptian group is Romance. Deiniol 16:55, 29 April 2006 (PDT)

For what it's worth, Quentin, your English isn't problematic at all; it's just that sometimes you'll ask a question in such a way that no one can possibly make a sensible answer. Like in the previous discussion -- we were sort of all over the place there.

As for Ancient History, we really can't be mucking about there. Messing with older history, like Alexander the Great and his descendant realms might have serious ramifications on later history. If the Hellenised Persian and Egyptian dynasties had gone differently, we might not even have a Rome. That would be bad for IB. Elemtilas 20:21, 29 April 2006 (PDT)

But there is an Alternate History wiki where Alexander in Egypt or the Ptolemid/Seleucid dynamiccould be played out more fully. Theophilus88 13:21, 1 May 2006 (PDT)


Where do I submit news stories? [Quentin]

You can do that here if you like. BTW, don't forget to sign your messages with ~~~~. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 05:04, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Thanks. Mine will take time to get through, no doubt. --Quentin 05:05, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Best bet would be to either post it to the Conculture list or mail it to me (elemtilas at yahoo dot com). Doing the latter gets the message flagged so's I can put it on the News Page. Elemtilas 09:09, 28 April 2006 (PDT)
Am emailing them to you. The proposals are sketchy and I've post-dated them deliberately. --Quentin 10:11, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Very good -- thank you! Elemtilas 20:10, 29 April 2006 (PDT)
Sent it (The first). If no-one else has done the "Arctic Union" news story, I'll do that next. --Quentin 09:25, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
Oh, and I post-dated it deliberately.
Got it! I can sit on it til the date you specified. And what a happy event for the lovely couple it is indeed! Elemtilas 09:48, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
Lovely couple? If the name "OBC" violates QSS, change it; otherwise go on! --Quentin 10:55, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
Well, I assumed they were a couple, anyway. I don't think there's any violation there with the name (can never have too many of the things, you know) -- but I can wait the requisite amount of time before publishing their highnesses', how shall I put it?, "explosively" exciting news! Elemtilas 15:30, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
The second is sent. Please post the "First section" ASAP. then post the "Second" and "Third sections" on the dates labelled. --Quentin 12:48, 1 May 2006 (PDT)


I get the impression these are still used in IB, especially in Dûnein. Also, I would like permission to move source material from bethisad.com related to Dûnein and to SAN over to the wiki. --Quentin 09:27, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

I suspect that digital (lcd) clocks might not be on the scene as they are *here* -- Keith could tell us if they're feasable yet. Perhaps larger digital type clocks are reasonably commonplace. The other choices for anyone in the world that wants to know the time with any precision are analog clocks, of which flip clocks and rotary dial clocks are two kinds. I'm not sure I'd say they're particular to Dunein, though.
As for moving source material here and there: the whole point of making IB related websites is to host known material (fact) in a pleasing fashion. Please feel free to link from the IB Wiki tó whatever source material is at the website. I just don't see the point in copying stuff from the website to the Wiki, though. The Wiki is ideally the place where ideas are discussed and formed, with the hope that someday they would be given a more permanent location on the web.
Elemtilas 09:47, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

Unincorporated Territory.

I'm hoping to make a news story about… euh… incorporating… some UT related to -

  • The big strech between New Iceland and Ontario. I'm not sure about the exact borders of either, but I'm looking at the atlas at hand and suggest that everything East of River Nelson, East of Lake Winnepeg, and North of other provinces become part of Ontario. As a new county with a Native name and native languages as official.
This has already been done. See Talk:Ontario and look at the maps in the Proposal section. The North America map hasn't been updated to reflect the change as of yet.
Sorry, I missed it.
  • Making a new province of Nunavut, roughly with the same area as here, but with the exception of not covering any islands outside of Hudson bay and not covering anything West of -110º. However I see that the Inuvik flag *there* is rather like the Nunavut flag *here*, so is that such a good idea? I was hoping to make it on the premise of the native state that makes itself independent through aborigine rights groups &c, but with a much different slant - I was looking at the "Ecotours" concept of ecotourism doing more harm than good.
This has already been done, too! (You have good ideas, but are a couple years too late!) There has been a Province of Nunavik (which encompases roughly *here*'s Nunavut) since 2003. Please see this page and skip down to "Status of Nunavik". Ecotourism may very well be important in the province (though I don't know what its relative harm/good ratio is), but don't expect any serious separatism. They'd been very carefully working towards provincehood since the mid 1990s.
The area of Nunavik is vèry different to that of Nunavut.
Whoever wrote the comment about nunavut (*here* formely the eastern part of the north-west territory) obviously confused it with Nunavik (northen part of the province of quebec). --Marc Pasquin 17:57, 1 May 2006 (PDT)
Indeed. When talking about Nunavik (*there*) early on, it was clear that only the eastern portion of the Inuit (I think) took the steps towards provincehood. Now that we know a little more about the UT in general, it seems clear that the rest were actually happier living within a non-provincial structure. Elemtilas 14:45, 2 May 2006 (PDT)
Vèry unlikely. It's privately owned land and has no inhabitants to speak of. The whole point of the UT was for Philadelphia to nòt have to worry about such large acreage and so few people on it. The attitude of the Bureau of Territories is largely "live and let live". Elemtilas 15:26, 30 April 2006 (PDT)
I see. --Quentin 12:47, 1 May 2006 (PDT)
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