Lla Dafern/Archive 6

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Bengwenid! Bieńwięty! Moyn moyn! Bemmeinde! Pemmenut! Benvenuto! Welcome!

This is Lla Dafern, or, as the Saxon invaders call it, The Pub. It is one of many places where the members of Ill Bethisad enjoy meeting each other informally. It is the place where opinions can be exchanged and questions can be asked concerning Ill Bethisad in general or about topics that do not fit in the Talk compartment of individual wiki pages. It is also the place where technical questions can be asked to the moderators of this wiki.

THE MENU: Our chef, whose nationality for reasons of security will remain undisclosed, offers you a broad assortiment of Helvetian and other specialties, such as Montreiano Sea Elephant steaks with rended blubber, or if you prefer a side of Pacific white sided dolphin babyback ribs. He will be more than happy to give you a demonstration of his culinary talents. Just keep your health insurance card ready! And if you aren't particularly hungry today, he will also happily treat you on a rosy-scented Jervan Muscatel, a cool Dumnonian cider, a warm Irish or a cold Batavian beer, or, if you are amongst the more daring, a true Venedic jekwiała. For those who appreciate fine wines we carry the rich red wines of Bordeaux and les Ozarques, Brandy or Montignac, and bin ruper from Hostreht in Xliponia. For the discerning, a good 1984 vintage Arvorec anaf aval is recommended as an apéritif. Especially for minors and teetotallers we also serve Coke, orange juice, goat milk, Italian Limonata, and Neofrancian Spruce beer. If you prefer a more active pursuit to accompany your imbibition, there's a rousing game of puir-man whummlin going on out back. There's even an occasional pickup match of hibercrosse. Cheerio!

WARNING: Please don't pay attention to the smoke, the noise and the mess. Watch your steps and don't break your neck over cables, books, broken chairs, empty beer cans, leftovers of cigarettes and snacks...our bus boys get to it when they can...

DISCLAIMERS: The management is not responsible for physical or mental damage inflicted upon our guests, especially when it is caused by the food, by the BioCola, by the regular rioting here, or by any other kind of misbehaviour on anyone's part.
Any similarity to what the Wikipedians call The Village Pump is not entirely coincidental.

NOTA BENE: You can sign your messages by typing ~~~ for just your name and ~~~~ for your name + timestamp.

The current Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight is: Franco-Prussian War.   Every fortnight a different topic, stub or non-existent article is picked by nomination.
Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can. 


2005: February – July | August – September | October | November | December
2006: January | February | March | April | May | June | July – September | October – December
2007: January – June | July – December
2008: January – June | July – December


Recent changes page

Even by using the "Show last 30 days" I can't seem to see the changes made before 30 december. is this a cache issue ? --Marc Pasquin 06:04, 31 December 2005 (PST)

I think the maximum number of changes that can be displayed is 500, regardless of date. I've had the same problem as you, and gave up using the "last 30 days" button as it doesn't really work. Elemtilas 06:43, 31 December 2005 (PST)
Well, it does, but you have to read the whole thing "Show last 50 | 100 | 250 | 500 changes in last 1 | 3 | 7 | 14 | 30 days", and the default is "50 changes". If you click one of those options, it'll show up to 50 changes in that number of days, which is a moot point on a busy wiki like ours, since you often get 50 changes in a single day. On a much less busy wiki, though, it has an effect Nik 13:49, 1 January 2006 (PST)

How would one translate 'How to Settle the Irish Question' into Brithenig?

I'd like to have the title of the GBS essay in Brithenig rather than English, seeing as it makes more sense. I've read over Andrew's notes and the best I can come up with is Seblin lla Cwestiwn di Ivern. Ivern is a guess: I couldn't find a translation for Ireland, so I made an educated guess as to what I thought it would end up as. I couldn't figure out how to translate how in the sense of The manner in which, and I also have my doubts as to whether it's idomatic.

Rhesolwar lla Gwestiwn d'Iwern or Rhesolwar lla Gwestiwn Uiddelig, 'Resolving the Question of Ireland / the Goidelic Question'. I've lost the etymology for Goidel and the library probably won't open before Wednesday so I can't vouch for the spelling of the second. Apparently Goidelic is the standard adjective for Irish in Brithenig. - AndrewSmith 16:11, 31 December 2005 (PST)
I would prefer the latter as well. "Irish" rather than "of Ireland".
OK, now o Master of the Learned Tongue, how about: "The Irish, all things considered, were not entirely content to sit in their bogs for centuries, and continually pestered their Kemrese overlords and overlairds with increasingly complex Questions." Elemtilas 20:02, 31 December 2005 (PST)
Excellent! Cheers! I prefer "of Ireland" to "Irish" there myself; "Uiddelig" seems just as applicable to the Scots as the Irish. I'll go with that. --Kgaughan 20:20, 1 January 2006 (PST)
Oh dearie me! A vèry good point indeed! We can't be having with one term to describe bóth the Irish Question and the Scottish Question! What could the Scottish Question be? They (the Scots (not to be confused with the Scots)) were allowed to keep their tongues and could skirl their kilts in public, and we know they weren't sent on one-way holidays to Australasia. Perhaps they'd like the Scone of Stone back after all? Elemtilas 23:55, 1 January 2006 (PST)

Vjelícz Nóv Ón

Happy New Year to all of you!

BPJ 13:23, 31 December 2005 (PST) (22.22 CET)

Gott Nytt År!! :-) RoMex 13:38, 31 December 2005 (PST)
Yes, Happy New Year! Zahir 20:58, 31 December 2005 (PST)
I fieliczu nowu oniu wów tociew dzie miej ileż! Szczu, je pukieł tardzie, uta jaram okipaty par jęgry ił ciępu... Ej, tała je wita. En kośkinu kazu, oprzeku wów totu oćmu! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 01:41, 6 January 2006 (PST)

Portraits of Slevan notables

Would you portrait makers like to have a stab at some Slevan notables like Pavel Mrac and Mark Urelj, which of course should be 19th century photographs? I'm also imagining a Hitler-Stalin-Mussolini morphing for the FNLS dictator Haljér :-) BPJ 12:25, 1 January 2006 (PST)


Well, I'm back - after a failed exam, I'm sorry to say. But there will be others. I'll try to keep Xliponia and the ULA updated more often now that I'm (so to speak) back in business. More anon. Kyrmse 12:40, 3 January 2006 (PST)

Welcome back! Sorry to hear about the exam, but there is the future. Zahir 14:21, 3 January 2006 (PST)
Welcome back Ron! As they say, better luck next time! Elemtilas 15:39, 3 January 2006 (PST)
Oj, I'm sorry to hear that. Well, next time I'm sure you'll make it. Welcome back, anyway! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 01:42, 6 January 2006 (PST)

Orphaned Pages

Will the owner of the following make sure they link these pages in?

  1. Felipese (people)
  2. Manaw
  3. Muslim conquests
  4. Usatets
  5. Xliponian Seasons
  6. Zodiac

We just need them linked to from some other page. BoArthur 15:05, 3 January 2006 (PST)

New templates for displaying special characters correctly in Internet Explorer

I have made two new templates Template:IPA and Template:XR to select fonts for displaying special characters correctly in Internet Explorer. They will also display a tooltip saying "IPA transcription" and "Xrirampur Romanization" respectively. See Template talk:IPA and Template talk:XR for usage instructions. BPJ 11:03, 4 January 2006 (PST)

How to Tell if You're...

There are available here a number of pages on "How to Tell if You're...". Wouldn't it be an enormous contribution towards intercultural understanding in Ill Bethisad (and a Good Thing, ánd a lot of fun besides) if we could write similar texts on Kemrese, RTC, Xliponian etc. cultures? For your consideration!

Kyrmse 17:18, 7 January 2006 (PST)

Heh heh heh. I'm enjoying this link a lot. Maybe you have something here... Zahir 17:57, 7 January 2006 (PST)
Oh help! I looked at making "How to Tell if You're Kemrese" a few years ago and decided that I didn't then know enough about Kemrese culture to pull one together without a lot of hard work. The Cross Cultural Comparisons are useful. Give me the afternoon and I'll see if I can cobble something together from that. - AndrewSmith 19:34, 7 January 2006 (PST)
Please take a look at How to tell if you're Xliponian. Kyrmse 17:16, 8 January 2006 (PST)
About to post up How to tell if you're Kemrese, it took longer than I expected. Open to corrections or suggestions - AndrewSmith 01:35, 9 January 2006 (PST).
Looks good! There's enough difference between the north and south to have a look at How to tell if you're Dumnonian. Elemtilas 13:15, 9 January 2006 (PST)

Système International

I have changed the references to (square) miles on my Xliponian pages to SI (square) miles, so as to avoid confusion. I suspect much current information about length and area on the IBWiki uses British units, which one should NÓT do... Kyrmse 17:21, 7 January 2006 (PST)

I have the feeling that's true! I don't think I've placed any specific values of this sort in the Wiki. The correct process, I suppose, is to take the primary world value in *here*'s SI and multiply by the appropriate conversion factor. Elemtilas 10:19, 8 January 2006 (PST)

Austro-Prussian War

Herolds and historians! We need to smith the IB-way of Austro-Prussian War! We have several tasks to do:

1) Who sided whom? In the Austro-Prussian War text I have suggested something; i.e. opposite siding to *here*, *there* the German states were more disgusted by Austria than fearing Prussia.

2) What was the Macchiavellian plan of Eisener Otto to kick Austria of HRE? *Here* it was capture of Schleswig-Holstein, but *there*? I wrote that it was Mecklenburg, but it is just a set of letters placed there instead of empty space rather than a real proposal. What was the role of Scandinavian Realm?

3) Course of the war also must be different. Bohemia was not included, so no Battle at Köninggraz could take place, I choose Dresden (although Saxony sided with Prussia); it was a tactical trick of general Moltke to let Austrians advance faster than they could realy advance and then to override them.

Vorwärds, liebe Freunde, mit uns zu immer neuen Triupmfen! Jan II. 00:08, 9 January 2006 (PST)

Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight!

Yep, I'm proud to unveil the Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight! I've also made up a nifty slew of templates, which I'm asking Jan van to help me categorize, including this nifty one:

The current Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight is: Austro-Prussian War.   Every fortnight a different topic, stub or non-existent article is picked by nomination.
Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can. 


Please go and vote, or nominate another page! BoArthur 21:22, 9 January 2006 (PST)

A very nifty template indeed! I do, however, have some second thoughts about the other ones. Do we really need templates for past, or proposed, COTFs? To me personally that evokes too many reminiscences of the English wikipedia, where it has become pretty hard to find a page that is not full of all kinds of templates. Much as I welcome the Collaboration of the Fortnight idea in itself, and much as I like the template above, I think we better avoid having templates all over the place. Besides, since this project involves perhaps 20 active participants, I don't think it's really necessary either.
That said, how would you like to use the template? Create a special page for the COTF and put it on top of it, just like here in Lla Dafern? Or give it a stable place in Lla Dafern?
Anyway, I'd suggest replacing the {{Template:IBCOTF article}} in it with a simple {{{1}}}, so that you can always type it as, for example, "{{Collaboration of the Fortnight|First Great War}}.
For the record, I have no objections against {{Template:Current IB COTF}}.
Cheers, —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 07:39, 10 January 2006 (PST)
I like how it all looks, but I agree, the templates may not be necessary. BoArthur 09:15, 10 January 2006 (PST)
Oh, I like how it all looks, too. My point was only that I have a feeling that we have too many templates already, and that I'd only create new ones if we really need them.
Anyway, I've tweaked the "main" template a little. I hope you like it. Instead of a separate template that contains a pagename I simply added it as a parameter.
And like I said, I have no problem with {{Template:Current IB COTF}} either. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:17, 10 January 2006 (PST)

A REMINDER TO ALL INTERESTED, The IBCOTF is scheduled for decision within 24 hours. Please cast your votes if you've not done so, if you're interested! BoArthur 13:07, 30 January 2006 (PST)

CCC = CICEP Country Codes

This is a theme that has been brought up in the past as ISO Codes. I would like to revive it. As I have said before, I am strongly in favour of - and have been using in IBWiki articles! - the following two-letter codes:

  • XL = Xliponia
  • BI = Bahia
  • BR = Brasil [nót Brazil!]
  • EQ = Equador
  • PA = Paraná

If it should be decided that CCCs are to be triliteral (but do they really have to???), then my suggestions would be XLI, BHI [BAH looks funny], BRA, EQU, PAR respectively.

Maybe we should also have codes for languages (xl, po, de, br, we for instance).

The advantage of all this is that we'll be able to refer to a country or a language "in shorthand" as it were.

What say you all?! Kyrmse 17:27, 11 January 2006 (PST)

Such codes would be handy for the postal union, certainly. If you want to refer to a language with an abbreviation, knock yourself out! I prefer three to four letter abbrevs. for that purpose, but it doesn't matter much.
As for the codes above, XL is free, so Xliponia is taken care of. Bahia already has BH; Equador already has EQ; and Parana already has PA. BR is in conflict: between Brasil and Brittany. Frankly, I think Brasil ought to have it, as "Brittany" is just the English name for a region of France that already has a French name (Cornouaille).
Three letter codes might be used by individual countries or supranational organisations as they see fit. I think the two letter country code idea is pretty much accepted.
See ISO Codes for the lists. Elemtilas 21:53, 11 January 2006 (PST)

Useful Expressions

Does this kind of thing deserve a separate category? Or should it be shown on the same page as the entry for the language? Your opinions will be welcome! Kyrmse 17:31, 11 January 2006 (PST)

It would be better to have it in the language article, I think, if you're going to have in the Wiki at all. The ideal bèst solution has always been to link to your own webpage!, which would hopefully have the fullest description of the wonderful Xliponian language, culture, history, etc. Elemtilas 21:57, 11 January 2006 (PST)
Oops!!! I just created (before reading your comment) a page on Xliponian for Travellers. Kyrmse 09:50, 12 January 2006 (PST)
No, that actually looks fine! There's no reason why you couldn't, at some point in time, create a web page with the whole thing in it, and link from the Wiki. Elemtilas 08:51, 13 January 2006 (PST)

Awesome picture! :) No, there's nothing wrong with having this in the wiki. What Padraic is referring to, and I fullheartedly agree with it, is that it would be a pity if we abandon our beautiful websites and put everything in the wiki instead. That was also the primary purpose of the News project: instead of moving all the old news to the wiki, to tempt people to look a bit outside it, and to remind people of the possibility that théy can write news items too. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 03:35, 13 January 2006 (PST) (note to Padraic: don't forget to put NAME tags on 2003b and 2004a!)

It won't be til Monday that I can do much about it... Elemtilas 08:51, 13 January 2006 (PST)
Me neither, so that's fine! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 11:16, 13 January 2006 (PST)
The picture of the ILB booklet is in fact an adaptation of the famous Langenscheidt travellers' dictionaries. I am not sure whether they are still published in this form, which was very handy and very practical, having a plastic cover. I own several of them, of course... but they contain much more than these few words and phrases. And Padraic, I understand your objection now. Kyrmse 07:48, 13 January 2006 (PST)
Of cóurse, and as far as I know, they are indeed still published in this form; bookshops in Germany are full of them! And of course, I own quite a few of them too. :) —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 08:00, 13 January 2006 (PST)
They're published here in Leftpondia as well, though I don't have any. Elemtilas 08:51, 13 January 2006 (PST)

IB Atlas

I may be returning to an "old hat", but - being a map and flag fan - I would lóve to see an IB Atlas with images such as this:


Of course, they would have to be kept updated, and updating images is not as easy as updating a Wiki page when a boundary, a name or a flag changes. The way Í do it - experts in Photoshop and similar programs must each know a better way! - is setting up PowerPoint pages where all these objects can be moved about and resized. Then I take a screenshot (!) and edit / save a .png file.

What say you? Anyone for the task? [ I myself am frightfully busy, and do not have all the maps etc. ;-) ]

Kyrmse 08:24, 13 January 2006 (PST)

We have two atlases already. See the main IB page here and click on the link to the Maps Page. There is also a link for the Maps of Ill Bethisad page there. I will be happy to add this South America map to the atlas! Re updating images: most maps should not require much updating. I think we can say with some certainty that all the countries we're going to find have been found. Subnational entities are a different matter, but they shouldn't be on continental maps anyway. ;)
That said, I'm sure my own effort could be spriced up a bit: if there are any comments on how I could present the maps better, they would be appreciated! Elemtilas 08:35, 13 January 2006 (PST)

China's Last Emperor

I have put up a proposal on Pu Yi, AKA Xuantong. As part of my proposal, I suggested that a marriage alliance was made with Japan by marrying off his sister to Hirohito. Since China had a form of salic law, this would prevent any claims by Japan to a hypothetical Chinese throne (and indeed, Japan wouldn't want a Chinese throne to be restored, fearing that a unified China would be a threat once more) Nik 10:11, 14 January 2006 (PST)

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