Lla Dafern/Archive2

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Bengwenid! Bieńwięty! Moyn moyn! Bemmeinde! Pemmenut! Benvenuto! Welcome!

This is Lla Dafern, or, as the Saxon invaders call it, The Pub. It is one of many places where the members of Ill Bethisad enjoy meeting each other informally. It is the place where opinions can be exchanged and questions can be asked concerning Ill Bethisad in general or about topics that do not fit in the Talk compartment of individual wiki pages. It is also the place where technical questions can be asked to the moderators of this wiki.

THE MENU: Our chef, whose nationality for reasons of security will remain undisclosed, offers you a broad assortiment of Helvetian and other specialties, such as Montreiano Sea Elephant steaks with rended blubber, or if you prefer a side of Pacific white sided dolphin babyback ribs. He will be more than happy to give you a demonstration of his culinary talents. Just keep your health insurance card ready! And if you aren't particularly hungry today, he will also happily treat you on a rosy-scented Jervan Muscatel, a cool Dumnonian cider, a warm Irish or a cold Batavian beer, or, if you are amongst the more daring, a true Venedic jekwiała. For those who appreciate fine wines we carry the rich red wines of Bordeaux and les Ozarques, Brandy or Montignac, and bin ruper from Hostreht in Xliponia. For the discerning, a good 1984 vintage Arvorec anaf aval is recommended as an apéritif. Especially for minors and teetotallers we also serve Coke, orange juice, goat milk, Italian Limonata, and Neofrancian Spruce beer. If you prefer a more active pursuit to accompany your imbibition, there's a rousing game of puir-man whummlin going on out back. There's even an occasional pickup match of hibercrosse. Cheerio!

WARNING: Please don't pay attention to the smoke, the noise and the mess. Watch your steps and don't break your neck over cables, books, broken chairs, empty beer cans, leftovers of cigarettes and snacks...our bus boys get to it when they can...

DISCLAIMERS: The management is not responsible for physical or mental damage inflicted upon our guests, especially when it is caused by the food, by the BioCola, by the regular rioting here, or by any other kind of misbehaviour on anyone's part.
Any similarity to what the Wikipedians call The Village Pump is not entirely coincidental.

NOTA BENE: You can sign your messages by typing ~~~ for just your name and ~~~~ for your name + timestamp.

The current Ill Bethisad Collaboration of the Fortnight is: Franco-Prussian War.   Every fortnight a different topic, stub or non-existent article is picked by nomination.
Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can. 


2005: February – July | August – September | October | November | December
2006: January | February | March | April | May | June | July – September | October – December
2007: January – June | July – December
2008: January – June | July – December


"Slvanjec" or "Slevan" in the Main Page languages

How does one spell "Slvanjec" or "Slevan" in the Main Page languages? NB it derives from Latin SILVÁNICUM! It *is* Schlevanisch in German BTW, deriving from Wenedyk Ślewanyk (sp?). BPJ 06:26, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Slevanec in Arvorec. Deiniol 06:44, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT)
Wenedyk: Ślewanik. Dutch: Slevaans. --IJzeren Jan 07:05, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT)
Jovian: Siovaenga.
Xliponian: Silbanic. Took me long enough! Kyrmse 06:18, 16 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Parallel universe

Hi, I'm Thorsten1 and I am just recovering from a head-on collision with Jan over the inclusion of Wenedyk on Wikipedia. While I do not think this is a good topic for Wikipedia to deal with, I thought it might be interesting to see how this wiki reacts to non-notable stuff such as the Polish language.... ;) --Thorsten1 14:30, 28 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Frankly, we've already got (Celtic) Welsh as a conlang within IB (have had for a long time, authored by one Andrew Smith) -- based upon the POD where the Romano-British were nòt, contrary to fact, able to withstand the ingress of the Saxons. I like your article on "European Union". We'll have to work out a place in the Culture page for arts like conlangs and fantasy worlds.
Query -- what do you mean by "non-notable"? I saw that term bandied about in the WP discussions and quite frankly didn't understand the point. [Actually, I saw a lòt of things bandied about in those discussions! Some of it pretty kadiri!] For what it's worth, this is the IB Wiki -- ánything that differentiates *there* from *here* has a justified place.
Way too many dud links to nonexistent pages, though. If you're going to use *here* as a conculture project from *there*, that's fine. Kindly place a v. short reference to any groups or persons that don't exist in IB within parentheses. Elemtilas


I see some of you using these simple maps in gray with white lines denoting the various nations with each specific nation done up in a color, and i'm wondering where is the main map? I even see "close ups" to focus on a small region (like Nik's map showing Japan. Where can I find these files? -- Doobieous

Don't know that there's a "main" map...Nik did his independent of me. The ones for the Andean Union, or the SR, or the FK and Commonwealth, etc. etc. are by me and I have the psd if you want it. BoArthur 21:13, 18 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Can I have it, too? Or now that I think of it, would it be possible for you to upload it to the wiki? I'm sure it could come in handy for a lot of people! --IJzeren Jan 05:42, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)

The First IB minicon

During my this year's travel through Scandinavia, I took the opportunity to meet some IB-makers. On 19th July we've met with Benct PJ in Göteborg and during 23rd-27th July with Santeri in Helsinki-Tartu. Both meetings were quite fruitful, nothing can compete the face-to-face discussion. Both guys kicked my thoughts quite forward and I expect to see the results soon; well, as soon I will overcome my lazyness and will start to *do* something. Thanks guys and I hope that more such meeting will happen! Jan I., you are the next! :) Jan II.

I certainly hope so! :) --IJzeren Jan 12:01, 19 Aug 2005 (PDT)
We need to arrange one here in the states! I know that Barry's in Cali, Niko's in Kansas, Padraic's in Maryland (Why we never got together for a cuppa and a chat, I don't know, I was in Virginia for two years for pity's sake!) I'm not sure where Jim and the others are, but we should see about doing one! BoArthur
I wonder what this will make (Old) Nassian orthography look like!
Actually, if Jan II is going to see Jan I in Zaandam we oughtta be able to get some more people to get there at the same time, as the Netherlands is quite centrally located in western Europe. BPJ 13:41, 18 Aug 2005 (PDT)
That is what I wonder too :) But I am now much closer to it...
BTW, I've put the comments on 3rd palatalisation on Slvanjec page (wiki.frath) and some suggestions to Moravljanjec to its local page.
And Zaandam seems to be even closer to me than Göteborg, cos I need not to sail ;) Jan II. 7:55, 19 Aug 2005 (CEST)
Hey, what am I hearing? Zaandam? That's cool! You're all very welcome of course. Our home is your home! Just let me know when, so that I can "prepare" my wife. ;) --IJzeren Jan (who apparently is going to watch the whole sail thing tomorrow in his brother's boat, oh yeah!) 12:01, 19 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Heh, my travel Netherlands will happen not sooner than next summer. Being a uni teacher, I do not have much time during semesters, but I have loooong holidays ;) Jan II.
Next summer would also be ideal for me. Boreanesia 00:28, 22 Aug 2005 (PDT)
That's great! You are all very welcome, of course. I'll make sure Christophe will be there, too. --IJzeren Jan 05:44, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)
I'm in the NYC area. Steg

Actually, Jan, since you met Santeri, I might as well ask you: how's he doing? We haven't heard from him for quite a while now! Does he have any plans? --IJzeren Jan 13:34, 24 Aug 2005 (PDT)

He is quite well, as far as I saw, but burried in non-IB things. He recently was awarded by Master of Arts in Finno-ugric linguistics and it consumed lot of his time before this year's summer. Now he is enjoying the summer (as far as one can enjoy this year's humid summer) and in September he is going south (Agram, Dalmatia) for one year as a lecturer of Finnish. We again plan to meet in September, when he is going through Czech Rep. He is working on the IB Finnish, which would be different from *here's* one significantly and he helps me quite a lot with Nassian, mostly how much would it be influenced by Finno-Ugric substrate. In Finland, thanks to Jussi, I met lot of mad linguists, they have a nest there, around him ;) Jan II.

Membership Map

What do y'all think about a map of members across the globe; this of course for our own edification, and something that we'll keep offline? BoArthur

Great! I live in São Paulo, Brasil (but you probably know thát already!). Kyrmse 09:23, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Suggestion: It should be an IB Map, where each one of us would appear in a certain colour, equivalent to the territories s/he manages. Kyrmse 09:38, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Nice idea. But difficult to implement. How do we decide who manages what? Taking myself as an example, would that only be the countries I réally manage (RTC, Russia) or also the countries I manage "by default" (Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Crimea, Turkestan, etc.). How do we handle countries which are owned by several people (Batavian Kingdom, England)? How do we handle people who don't really own a country, but have done a lot of work for the project as a whole (John)?
And, how do we find 40+ easily distinguishable colours?
--IJzeren Jan 11:34, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)
And, when you only "manage" several sea-bound rocks and a country with more folds in it than an elephant's backside you aren't going to show up too well! OTOH, I dó think it would be a good idea to have a map which shows areas which *aren't* taken, perhaps with different colours for those areas we know at least *something* about. Deiniol 12:50, 23 Aug 2005 (PDT)
I think a map of areas which aren't taken is equally hard to accomplish. It's not like some countries are owned and others ain't, it much more like a continuum. If we should make one, we must distinguish between:
  • countries that we haven't even discovered yet
  • countries we know the name of, nothing more
  • countries which are unowned, but that somebody has written a few sentences about
  • countries that have been provided with temporary data (QAA-like stuff)
  • countries that are semi-owned (they were once claimed but never worked on; or, they were abandoned; or, they fall within someone's realm of interest without being this person's main focuspoint (owned "by default"); etc.)
  • countries that are fully owned.
But then I ask: do we really need such a map? Is anyone really waiting for it? --IJzeren Jan 13:48, 24 Aug 2005 (PDT)
This is why I suggested a simple map showing where we all live. I think The List is sufficient to show who 'controls' what. BoArthur
Agreed. I think an internal map of (roughly) where we're all comming from would not be a bad idea. The List is sufficient for the other purpose to my mind as well. Elemtilas
Fine. But then we should preferably work with maps of continents rather than with a world map. I'll happily take care of the European map! --IJzeren Jan 13:48, 24 Aug 2005 (PDT)
I'm a third-cultured person, so in my case, where I come from and where I live are two somewhat separate things. I was born of Danish and Filipino parents. I was raised mostly in the Philippines, but also in Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia. I spent my childhood summer vacations in Denmark. Now I currently live and work in Denmark. So I'd prefer that at least Denmark and the Philippines be marked for me. I'll work on the Asian map, since the ones up in the net are completely outdated and it seems I'm the only one who knows what's really going on in SEAsia. Boreanesia 17:06, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Since it's me who's going to make the map of Europe: just to be sure, you're living in Køpenhavn, right? Interesting history you have, BTW. Were your parents diplomats? --IJzeren Jan 22:13, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Yes, Køpenhavn it is. And no, my parents were not diplomats—although a lot of my schoolmates in the Philippines had parents with diplomatic immunity. (Though they were not necessarily diplomats themselves. Expats working at the International Rice Research Institute, the Asian Development Bank, and the former US military bases had diplomatic immunity). My Dad was in the timber business, and my Mom was in the fashion accessories business. Boreanesia 00:47, 30 Aug 2005 (PDT)
We're meaning mostly "Where we come from" as in where our place of residence currently is. Not that I see a problem listing you from both places, mind....BoArthur 17:25, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Now that I think of it: do we use a *here*'s map or a *there*'s map for this little project? --IJzeren Jan 22:13, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
I think *there*'s map would be more appropriate Nik 23:44, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
OK. Just to be sure: we're marking the maps by city, right? Or is it by country? And other than me, are there any other Asian IB members I need to be aware of? Boreanesia 00:47, 30 Aug 2005 (PDT)
By city would probably be best. Chances are pretty good that some countries have two or more IB members living in them Nik 12:05, 30 Aug 2005 (PDT)
What about General Kim Tiu (of Rank Insignias)? Have we made him a member? Boreanesia 00:47, 30 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Not yet, I think. But I would be in favour of that. In fact, he has already done more than several people who are on the List. It's good to have members who are "in charge" of something else than a country - that broadens our horizon! --IJzeren Jan 03:34, 30 Aug 2005 (PDT)
He hasn't sought membership -- he may or may not even be interested. It can't hurt to ask him, and I'd certainly favour such membership if he wants it. Just as an aside: I know you don't mean any disrespect at all, but this is not a project where we have work quotas -- being named in the List means you've contributed to the project, without any respect to how much or how little. That said, I agree: he has done quite a lot of tinkering and questioning! That's certainly a Good Thing. Elemtilas
No no, I indeed didn't mean any disrespect. I'm sorry if I came across that way. All I wanted to say is: he has contributed to the project, and therefore deserves a place on the list. If he wants it, of course. --IJzeren Jan 13:38, 31 Aug 2005 (PDT)
Didn't think you'd meant it that way! It also strikes me that Tom Chapell has also offered sufficient questions and ideas. While I don't think he showed interest in officially joining, the General might. Elemtilas
I'll whip up a proposal map tonight of all the data that I can garner, then. BoArthur

See it [here]

Wow! That's so cool! Unfortunately, though, it seems to have been based off of a world map in which Al-Basra was drawn too small. Although there's no one near there with a dot, so i guess it doesn't matter so much ;) Steg
[quibble] I'm a South Islander (Mainlander) living in Dunedin, not a North Islander[/quibble] - AndrewSmith
[quibble] I had no way of knowin thou habited the South Island... [/quibble] BoArthur
That's great, Dan! Just leave it to the map master of IB! After seeing it, I don't think there's a need for regional membership maps. Your map will do fine! The borders are a bit outdated though, but that can easily be fixed. Now if I may also quibble: I'm living in Copenhagen, not in the boondocks of Jutland. But then again, the island of Zealand isn't on the map anyways. But that can also easily be fixed. ;) Boreanesia 22:05, 31 Aug 2005 (PDT)
[quibble] Close enough for government work! [/quibble] BoArthur
I agree it looks great, but I'd prefer to have the numbers if another colour (black, blue, green) because here they become completely unreadable against the white background. Furthermore, here are a few more names with places for you:
2. Ray Brown - somewhere in the UK
3. John Cowan - NYC
8. Sally Caves - Rochester, NY
9. Geoff Eddy - Edinburgh (Scotland)
10. Dave Joll - Invercargill, NZ
13. Damon Lord - Cardiff, Wales
16. Christophe Grandsire - The Hague, NL
17. Daniel Andreasson - Stockholm, Sweden, I think
21. Keith Gaughan - somewhere in Ireland. Cork?
I was in Cork, but I'm now up in Sligo again. I'll be moving over to Boston eventually as Jeffrey Henning (yes, that Jeffrey Henning) is my new boss. Waiting on my H1B though. --Kgaughan 22:51, 15 October 2005 (PDT)
23. Joe Hill - Somewhere near the Ffens
31. Pavel Iosad - Moscow, Russia
33. Tristan McLeay - Melbourne, Australia
35. Nikhil Sinha - New Delhi, India
36. Jesse Bangs - Seattle?, USA
39. Decameron - Rome, Italy
40. Jeff Wilson - Miami
41. Wesley Parish - Somewhere in NZ
I don't have any info about the following people:
3a. Martin Bertagnon
5. Peter Skye
6. John Schilke
11. Douglas Mosier
22. Wayne Chevrier
28. Roger Mills (I vaguely recall something like Houston, but wouldn't vouch for it).
32. Hanuman Czhang (San Francisco, perhaps?)
34. Rodlox
43. Piedro Aillard
45. Habarakhe
--IJzeren Jan 02:32, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)
I'm not sure of the wisdom of placing people and locations when they are no longer with us to give their ayenay. Particularly those from long ago. That said, I do know the locations of a couple of these older Members. Elemtilas
Me neither, but since this was supposed to be a map of "the list", I think it would be worth to include the non-active members, too. That said, most of the people I listed above can not even be consider non-active. --IJzeren Jan 13:20, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)
As I said elsewhere (quibble quibble), namely on the comments page of the map image itself, São Paulo - where I live - lies a bit farther to the southwest. Otherwise I think the map is fine. There should be English ánd Kemrese Guyanas, though (see the South America article & map). Also Xliponia is missing, just south of Albania. Now this is a serious matter, I being the Plenipotentiary Chargé d'Affaires and all! But I do like the map, in fact I like it so much I would appreciate having a printout hung on my office wall, áfter the corrections of course. Good job!!! Kyrmse 03:48, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)
[quibble] Tweren't MEANT to be exact (Choking a Tinker!). 'Twere meant to give an idea! (Millenium hand 'and Shrimp!) BoArthur
Yay! You got me right! However, you got Damon Lord (no. 13) wrong- he lives in Cardiff *here*, he's just in charge of Wight *there*. Deiniol 04:40, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)
While you, being Welsh, live VERY near Wight, right? Anyway, since you live so close to each other, did you guys ever meet? --IJzeren Jan 13:22, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)
I only have to walk 1/2 a mile from my flat to the seafront in order to see the Isle of Wight, as it happens! However, we British tend not to be a very mobile nation- Cardiff is quite a long way away for me, so no we've not met. Deiniol 13:41, 1 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Articles to be deleted

The following pages were nominated for deletion a month or three ago: Africa, Asia East, Asia West, Europe, Middle East, Oceania. I haven't heard anything about it since then. Is it okay if I delete them now? --IJzeren Jan 04:43, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Please go ahead! They're just lists of countries, and we've already got a good list of all countries. [PB]
Ditto! Boreanesia 17:06, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)
And gone they are! --IJzeren Jan 22:08, 29 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Fictitious Biographies

This link:


reveals a large number of biographies of people-that-never-were (at least *here*, but in IB, who knows?). Maybe an interesting source for us... Kyrmse 09:25, 7 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Cool! Thanks Ron! Elemtilas


I believe we have a consistency problem, or do I see the issue the wrong way? The Currency page states that

1 llîr/livoers/pound/poond = 1840 gr silver

(where gr is a grain, not a gram, of course). On the other hand, Currencies of the World in Ill Bethisad states that

The EF livre consists of 640 grains of pure silver

I have based the currencies of the Lusoamerican Union (minus Uruguay), that is, Bahia, Brasil, Equador and Paraná, on the former figure (as being the IBWiki-internal definition), as may be seen on the Currency or the LAU Currency page. But I am beset by doubts. Help!

Kyrmse 11:51, 11 Sep 2005 (PDT)

The first one you mentioned is the FK pound, while the second is the EF (European Federation) pound. They are two different entities Nik 23:14, 17 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Thanks, Nik - should have been evident to me, but wasn't! Anyway, I feel múch better now - no inconsistencies in my work to correct, more time to devote to other matters. Such as playing cards (that's thinking of playing-card designs, not doing the actual gambling). And discussing with Chlewey what Uruguay will do in relation to the conto, the currency of the Lusoamerican-Union-minus-Uruguay common currency (that's Bahia + Brasil + Equador + my home country of Paraná, for those too lazy [no, strike that out!!!] exceedingly busy to do the maths). Probably the conto will be tolerated and traded, even used for payment in Uruguay, but will not become common currency in the BI+BR+EQ+PA sense. Kyrmse 08:15, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT)


Sorry 'bout the downtime today... Hopefully we're back up for now. (details on what happened at our webhost here.) If anything is still amiss, let me know. —Muke 21:59, 12 Sep 2005 (PDT)


It said to introduce me here. I probably won't make many edits, but I was looking through Bethisad III for a few months, so I might make some minor ones over the time. I am from Grandduchy of Lithuania, Vilnija (Wilno, Wilen) province :) . Abdul-aziz 09:48, 17 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Welcome to our happy little throng! Jan's in charge of the RTC, but I see you've been in contact with him already. Deiniol 09:23, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT) (also known occasionally as Abdul Alhazred, the Mad Druid of Ceyser :P)

Welcome on my part, too! Or did I already say that? :) Anyway, the name Abdul-Aziz does sound familiar to me. Are you on Conlang, by accident?

(The rest of this discussion has moved to Talk:Lithuania)

Regarding Chile

hey, I am a Chilean historian major, really interested of what you guys are doing here. I added a little info on the Chile fact sheet. It's funny Chile in the Ill Bethisad universe is half its dimension. So regarding those facts I put that the Castilians never won the Arauco War, and thus they granted the Araucanians free sovereigneity before Chile was established as a Republic.

Welcome! I'd say: make yourself at home. I recommend you to take a username and sign your messages here with ~~~~; that way it's easier to recognise who wrote what. Secondly, please make sure you join the Conculture Group, because that's where most of our discussions take place. As for Chile, South America is Carlos Thompson (Chlewey)'s domain, and I suggest you fine-tune your ideas with him. Cheers, IJzeren Jan 07:54, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Regarding Chile II

My name is Alberto, by the way. You can reach me on MSN messenger at [email protected]

Regarding Chile III

BTW, I proppose the Chilean capital name should be changed to "Santiago del Nuevo Extremo", its original name.

Playing Cards

I know the subject is endless, but do you think the current version can already be deproposalised? We will always be free to add material... Kyrmse 04:43, 21 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I think it's pretty much been accepted by acclamation. I'll leave thee the honour of taking down the "proposal" banner and opening the first bottle of jisteor blancq! [PB]
So be it! Kyrmse 12:26, 22 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Introducing Zahir


Zahir is the name. I've been hanging out at the Conculture list for quite some time, but only recently began to contribute to IB. Perhaps foolishly, I agreed to create rank insignia for the NAL military. I've done three so far--Navy, Army, Air Force--and have begun work on the NAL Marines.

Along the way I've created a few Snags, including some notes about theatre (my field) and some popular entertainment details.

Frankly, I've become quite intrigued by the NAL navy, which as I explained on the list I rather like to think of as the Solemn League Navy. I am seriously thinking of writing up some ideas for submission, with the idea of a full-blown article of some length being the goal. However, this would necessitate nailing down some facts about NAL history, hence my reluctance to simply create such an article out of whole cloth.

Hmmm. That was fairly long-winded, wasn't it? For the record, I am from San Francisco, was raised in Florida, went to school in New York City and currently reside in Los Angeles.

Zahir 07:14, 24 Sep 2005 (PDT)

When you can, link those insignias to the Uniforms and insignias page, I'd be curious to see them.
As for the solemn navy, the best might simply be to post some of the ideas tagged as "proposal" and people concerned will be able to comment on them. This sort of discussion has been known to help patch up some overlooked holes in the IB timeline. --Marc Pasquin 09:30, 24 Sep 2005 (PDT)
I've uploaded the proposed insignia. I look forward to some further feedback. Zahir 12:36, 24 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Welcome to our merry little company, David! Please make yourself at home. And thanks for the great work you have already done.
I guess you must have an impression of the NAL-SLC by now. It's a very interesting country really, and apart from the Federated Kingdoms, it's pretty much at the very heart of IB itself. No one owns it exclusively, nor should anyone, but several members of IB have contributed to it over the years - by writing a news item, by adopting a province, or anything else. Even I, whose region is interest is completely somewhere else, contributed a General Moderator.
I hope you'll have a great time here. Cheers, IJzeren Jan 23:48, 24 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Thankee very much! I've already made two serious proposals, after pouring over this site and others. I look forward to your feedback, suggestions, criticisms, etc. Zahir 00:03, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Two? I've seen at least five articles from your hand! Very nice stuff, I should add. As for "serious proposals", I could find only your Civil war article. Looks excellent, but like I said before, I'm not the best person to talk to when it comes to North American affairs (although I do have some involvement via Southeast Florida, which is occupied by the RTC). What's the other? --IJzeren Jan 12:09, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Well, when writing the above I would have said the Solemn League Navy, but my mood now says the article about Richard III--which answers not only questions about Shaxespear but about the life of one of England's kings. Plus three movies. Heh heh. The made-up t.v. shows and stuff are just nice filler that, imo, helps a fictional universe feel lived-in, y'know? Zahir 12:27, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Yeah. Just make sure that you don't start describing Babylon 5! It's actually a show created in the RTC, but I still need to write the article. I'm a little sick right now, but I'll do my best within a few days. --IJzeren Jan 12:31, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Good thing you said that! Nineveh Nine was floating the back of my mind! But maybe I'll do the spinoff, Jihad. Zahir 12:36, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Well, Nineveh Nine could still be there as some kind of plagiarism! As for the spinoff: sure, go ahead! As for Babylon 5, I do not intend to change the name thát much: I think Babyloń 5 will do! --IJzeren Jan 12:43, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
It occurs to me that one reason B5 could be produced *here* was that it used cutting edge CGI as opposed to the old "models" method. My impression was that IB's computers are not as advanced. Just a thought. Zahir 15:47, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Welcome to Ill Bethisad / Bengwenid a'll Bethisad, Zahir. I don't think filling out the kings of Kemr is overstepping any boundaries. You are not the first. John Cowan introduced the budget crisis of Gereint XII (he refused to sign it and the Senad had to sidestep the monarchy). I generated the list of kings by taking a book of Kings and creating averages, first from the Princes of Wales, then Kings of England, Scotland and Ireland, later adding in the king of France and the Kaiser of Germany for variation. I think one day I will go back and try and create the succession, but I have not done it yet. There are certain rulers that have to exist *there* - Hywel the Good, Llewellyn the Great, and Llewellyn Our Last Prince. According to hints I have placed on the Kemr page and the Timeline, equivalents of Owen Glendower, Henry VIII, John Dee, Oliver Cromwell, Lloyd George and Winston Churchill exist. None of them have been fully fleshed out. - AndrewSmith 04:58, 26 Sep 2005 (PDT)


I have just destubbed a few articles. In fact, I doubt very much if we really need the stub-tag here at all; like I've said before, I don't think we should try to mimic the "real" wikipedia. On the other hand, I agree that in a few cases it can be helpful. As a general guideline regarding stubs, I propose that we use the tag only for very short articles (two or three lines max) that serve no other function than filling up a red link from another article with some provisory data under the slogan "better two sentences than nothing at all". It should not be used for articles that are significantly longer, but that can still be expanded; in fact, almost every article we have can always be expanded. Comments? --IJzeren Jan 12:17, 25 Sep 2005 (PDT)

IB's Atlanta = IB's Hollywood?

I was explaining the whole idea of IB to a friend on Friday. She lives in Hollywood, and the same question occurred to us both as we were talking--what it the "Entertainment Capital of the World" in IB???

There is no one mega-entertainment-capital of the world.

The motion picture industry *here* ended up in Los Angeles primarily because of the climate. However, that was only a strong motivation for maybe ten years or so, when sunlight was used in lieu of powerful artificial lights. After that, large indoor studios were built. The other big advantage was that Hollywood had plenty of space and as it grew become something of a "company town."

We thought about what part of North America east of the Mississippi might fit those criteria, and we both thought of Atlanta. But I'm not sure if that makes sense as far as what has already been established. Comments? Suggetions? Please? Zahir 09:24, 26 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I'm sure big towns like Chicago and New Amsterdam are powerful presences in the entertainment industry, being the homes of major radio/television corporations. Why not Atlanta? Perhaps their southern charm could play host to smaller studios / avante guard artists looking for a break from the big cities up north? [PB]

why an american city, How about Australia, Plenty of space, cheap and a modern and stable economy. be original, try to take thing over seas and out of america.

NAL Government

This is really a proposal, based on what I've read so far and was hoping it could be codified.

I'm assuming the NAL has three branches:

  • Executive in essence comprised of the General Moderator (GM) and the Cabinet. The Cabinet is chosen by the GM exclusively from Parliament and with Parliament's approval. The GM is commander-in-chief of the armed forces and nominates national magistrates. The Cabinet nominates ambassadorial posts. The GM has the line item veto, which can be overridden by a majority of one house and a two-thirds majority of the other. The GM also has the right of pardon. By tradition the Cabinet includes roughly the same number of Senators as MPs.
  • Legislative which is styled the Great Convention of the North American League, though commonly known as Parliament. Parliament consists of a Senate and a House of Delegates. Senators are three per province, the method of selection being the domain of that provincial government (most hold direct elections). Their terms are for six years and half must face re-selection every three years. Delegates are elected based on populations of individual provinces for terms of either five years or the next general election, whichever comes first. All bills must originate in the Commons, but to become law must be approved by both houses. The Senate approves judicial and ambassadorial nominations. MPs address one another as Brother or Sister Conventioneer -- while Native MPs are addressed as Elder Brother or Elder Sister. Parliament as a whole elects a President who presides over the entire body when it is in session (although it is not unusual for the President Pro Tempore to do so). This President is usually a Senator or Delegate but need not be. When in individual sessions, each House is presided over by a Speaker elected from among the members.
  • Judicial consists of the High Court comprised of nine Justiciars with a rotating Chair. There are various other National Courts of Appeals and Tribunals.

Comments? Suggestions? 12:32, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Good work! We needed to have a couple things ironed out, and you brought up some things we hadn't thought about. I changed a couple minor things to bring the article into line with what's known. Strikeouts indicate something that might be wrong or out of place (mostly the "President"). The GM seems to be chosen from Parliament (ambiguity: we know only that Parliament elects the GM) -- I'm not sure if it's wise to also have the Cabinet chosen from Parliament. I don't really understand the point of the "President" or "President Pro Tempore" or why can be chosen from elsewhere apart from Parliament. I.e., do they pick someone off the street saying "Boy, have we got a deal you can't refuse!" I like the idea of the two Houses simply having Speakers.
IIRC, it's been decided that the NAL-SLC has a parliamentary system, rather than a presidential system like *here*'s USA. I could be wrong, however. Deiniol 13:06, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT)
I'm just going by what is described elsewhere, which would be more like a "mixed" system, rather akin to the government types used in France and Isreal *here*. Zahir 13:39, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT)
There ùsed to be an office of "President" -- they were just reduced GMs; place holders that twiddled the reigns of power until a proper election could be organised. [PB]

Don't know why, but I had the impression that the GM was elected in a direct election every ten years. *shrugs* But if Parliament elects him (or her), fine by me. I didn't realize the office of the President had been abolished. Thought it had been modified to become the full GM in the event of a vacancy. I would personally be in favor of the idea that Parliament can elect the GM from anyone who qualifies (but that this usually means an MP or Senator). JMHO Zahir 18:49, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Anybody else have any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms, etc.? Zahir 09:41, 29 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Possible a better name for the GM would be State-Holder. State-Holder implies he is th eperson in charge of various states that arent fully unified, President is more for a fully unified country like modern USA

Who are you? To answer your comment, "General Moderator" is the established title for the office in question. Think on it like the GM "moderating" various states that aren't fully unified. Though they áre fully unified, having sought the blessings of the Elders and admission to the League, the legally elected governor of said state having signed the Convenant. [PB]

ah appologise. i have read more on the NAL, some sites give the impression that the NAL is a very loose confederation of states

In some ways it certainly is a confederation. It is not a "very loose" confederation, though. [PB]
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