File talk:Nihon-rank-insignias.PNG

The insignias are based on the 1931-38 style but with a Chrysanthemum flower instead of the star (*here*, it was used for some ranks of the navy during the second world war and later by the self-defence force). I've added 2 more ranks then existed *here* in the 30s so that it is equivalent to the current scale (I assumed it would have developt among similar lines). --Marc Pasquin 18:30, 11 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Hmm ... the modern Self-Defense Forces haven't added any more ranks. Where did you get Jun I from? And where's the insignia for Guensuì (*here*'s Gensui). The insignia are nice, though.

Incidentally, the romanization is different *there*. See Japanese military, though there I only have officer ranks listed Nik 22:05, 11 Aug 2005 (PDT)

By comparing a modern chart with one from the 30s, I noticed there were 18 ranks instead of 16. The 2 added where an extra rank on the soldier/corporal level and an extra sergeant (which I suspect might come from the US influence). I named them on the chart santo ho and santo cho simply by imitating similar ranks (I don't speak japanese), the naming used for the various rank in the self-defence are quite different so I was afraid they would stand out too much.

Jun I is the name that was on the chart for that particular rank in the 30s and correspond to the modern Jun Rikui. the design itself is an invention, It was orginaly the same as the lowest officers but without any pips.

Which chart? Nik 20:09, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

which chart what ? (sorry I don't get the question).--Marc Pasquin 09:31, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

"Jun I is the name that was on the chart", what chart? What I mean is, where did you find it?

on the 30s one, look here:

http://www.uniforminsignia.net/show.php?stat=Japan&podkategorie=1931-1945%20Army&num=3&id=1353

if you go back to the japan main page, you can compare it to the self-defence force ones. (and look at the imperial navy ones).--Marc Pasquin 15:34, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

As for "Gensui", I can't find any name that look like in any charts, what is it ?

Field Marshall/Admiral of the Fleet. See Wikipedia:Japanese_military_ranks - hmm ... though, it appears now that I look at it that it was an honorific title rather than an actual upper rank

Might Jun I be another term for Junshikan, "Warrant Officer"?

thats how it was translated, although the term "warrant officer" itself have different meaning depending on the army (highest sub-officer, class in between sub-officers and officers, specialists, etc....) and based on the design, I think that Jun I might actualy be a sort of aspirring officer (like a sub-lieutenant). What might be the litteral translation ?--Marc Pasquin 09:31, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Jun- can mean "semi-", "quasi-" or "associate". So, quasi-officer, associate officer, half-officer Nik 13:23, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

so I guess the sub-lieutenant bit was the correct one.

by the way, I have been checking for the field marshal. As you said, it was honorific, not a rank. That doesn't you can't have one, it could either be 4 stars or a more embroided one. I also read of a dragon badge on a forum but can't find an image (or even confirmation). it could also be based on the order of the rising sun (http://www.medals.org.uk/japan/images/japan006.jpg). Lastly, it could be some type of mon.--Marc Pasquin 15:34, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

The chu- and sho- prefixes should be long, as is the -sho/-jo base, and the -to in the enlisted ranks.

Are these insignia for the army, the navy, or both? Nik 20:09, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Up to you. *Here*, the japanese imperial navy used a different system to the army.--Marc Pasquin 09:31, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Which branch from *here* are those insignia adapted from? Nik 13:23, 13 Aug 2005 (PDT)

the army. the navy used both a british-type loop system and some epaulette that were vaguely reminiscent of the army ones (for the officer anyway) which I was thinking of adapting into collar tab. here's an WW2 admiral:

http://military-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp/koshashin/koshashin-tougou.htm

Lastly, if you want to draw a list of the names, I'll change it (or you can do it directly with paintbrush if you want). the name I used were simply the old, if you want you can change them completely.--Marc Pasquin 09:54, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

You know, I was looking at these ranks, and to me it looks like the Chrysanthemum is more like the Sakura (Cherry Blossom). -- Doobieous

Could be. A text I read identified it as a chrysanthemum and since it as less petals then the emperor's one, I had assumed there might simply be some sort of symbolic difference (like the number of toes on chinese dragons). I'm perfectly willing to accept there was a mistake (or that I misread)--Marc Pasquin 10:53, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

The Sakura could still work in regard to soldiers as I believe the samurai saw themselves like the cherry blossom, as their lives were often brief as the cherry blossom is. The design you used reminds me of the wingbat font's sakura but it's hard to tell what your source image was. To me it looks like it has 5 petals with the classic notch at each end, with the ring of stamens (but highly stylized). Sort of like this: http://www.rinyodo.com/img/img_crest/sa_sakura_05.gif - Doobieous

That look pretty much like what I used, only a bit more complex: there was five small buds and split petals. Sakura it is then.--Marc Pasquin 12:22, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)

Hmmm ... yeah, that's definitely a cherry blossom. The sakura is an old samurai symbol. It also gave its name to the ōka manned bomb kamikaze plane. *Here*, of course. None of that kamikaze nonsense happened *there* Nik 20:09, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)