File talk:GW2europe.jpg

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This is my first try and is somewhat crude. Please let me know how to make it better, but keep in mind this is bound to be nothing more than an approximation. Thank you... Zahir 21:50, 18 October 2005 (PDT)

Xliponia was an ally, not part of the Allianz! Therefore green, not black. Kyrmse 03:52, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
Unless I'm mistaken, that just mean it got conquered.--203.164.54.207 04:09, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
Occupied maybe, but not conquered - remember the fiercely independent Xliponian spirit. Xliponia díd enjoy FK protection. Kyrmse 05:08, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
Methinks for the purposes of the map, the presence of large numbers of foreign troops stationed there against Xliponia's wishes would qualify it as being in the black (much as the Republic of the Two Crowns and northern France). Incidently, making up this map answered a question for me--like what precisely broke up the Allianz. No way Hessler would be comfortable with a Russian salient that size in the heart of his Reich! Zahir 06:23, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
Explanation accepted! Kyrmse 06:26, 19 October 2005 (PDT)

Thanks for the correction on the borders! Zahir 07:19, 19 October 2005 (PDT)

France

You've gone a touch too far west with Navarra; you'll want to bring it back eastward. I can send you my PSDs of my europe map, if that would help you? BoArthur

That would be kind. Thank you. Zahir 10:58, 19 October 2005 (PDT)

Some comments

Hey David! A very nice map, but I do have a few remarks:

  • Why did you pick the year 1941? The important landmarks of the Second Great War were:
    • 1939, when the war broke out;
    • 1943, when the war broke out between Germany and Russia;
    • 1945, when Scandinavia joined the Allies;
    • 1949, when the war ended.
In other words, there's nothing special about the year 1941, and there would not have been much of a reason to depict Germany with its allies in black and Russia with its allies in orange. I would suggest you the year 1943 instead, when the Allianz was on the apex of its power and shortly before it fell apart.
  • One thing to keep in mind is that we're talking about blocs of allies here, not about states. Neither Hungary, nor Greece was ever occupied by Russia or Germany (not counting the "liberation" of Hungary by Russia in 1948 or so).
  • The borders between the blocs are not fully correct. Please have a look at the map of Eastern Europe in 1939.
    • First of all, Estonia, Livonia and Courland were occupied by Russia, so they should be orange instead of black (just like Nassland).
    • Lithuania was occupied by Russia as well, while Veneda and IIRC Bohemia were occupied by Germany. There was no RTC at the time.
    • Hungary was an independent member of the Allianz. After the Allianz broke up, it was on the side of Germany, so it should be in black instead of orange. The same goes for Greece.
    • The Danubian Confederation had ceased to exist by then. It consisted of Serbia and Bulgaria (both pro-Russian), Croatia (pro-German) and Dalmatia (probably Allied, but not sure about that). Slovenia was part of Croatia, Sanjak of Serbia. It don't remember what the status of Albania was.
    • I'm not sure about the Romanias. My best guess is that Oltenia was under Hungarian occupation, Moldova under Russian/Ukrainian occupation, and Muntenia was a pro-German satellite state.
  • A minor detail: Rygen was, and is, part of Scandinavia, not of Germany.
  • You might want to change the colour of the snorist bloc to a slightly lighter shade of orange; on my home PC it is hardly discernible from the red colour of Scandinavia.

Hope that helps! --IJzeren Jan 11:55, 19 October 2005 (PDT)

I chose 1941 because this map was preparatory to describing what was going to be the Sinking of the Ludendorff, which will likely now involve a combat between airships, rather than the destruction of surface capital ship. While I'm aware that the two sides in GW2 were actually a lot more complex than simply Germany VS Allies, but frankly the work entailed in trying to make a thoroughly accurate represenation of that is more than I'm prepared to embark upon. So I was attempting to present the major players as "blocs" rather than individual states (note how France, Italy, England, Scotland and Kemr were all represented by one color). But I will attempt to make things more accurate in terms of the actual borders, although it also seems to me such things would be in flux during a war that lasted this long. Your comment about the color of Russia is also a good point. If this turns out okay, I may do a series of maps showing to some extent the course of the war. Zahir 13:17, 19 October 2005 (PDT)
Maybe you can just change the legend to read "German sphere of influence" or something to that effect.


Quoting from A Brief Outline of Xliponian History in the IBWiki article on XL: "During the Great Wars Xliponia maintained a resolute – some say fierce – neutrality, accepting refugees from all sides, most of which returned to their home countries after the wars ended. Some fighting along the border and at sea was inevitable; a few thousands were lost in GWI and GWII." That would make us red in colour, not so?! Kyrmse 11:48, 20 October 2005 (PDT)
Yeppers. Zahir
Not to belittle Xliponia but *here* belgium and a few other countries tried to maintained a "resolute neutrality", it did not prevent them from being invaded. --Marc Pasquin 19:05, 20 October 2005 (PDT)
That's true. And we all know what kind of ambitions Greece had! If Xliponia was NOT invaded by Greece, the Greeks must have had a very good reason for not doing so. Perhaps Xliponia was not thát neutral after all? Perhaps there were some secret dealings between the two governments the Xliponia would silently (and financially) support the Greek attack on Turkey? --IJzeren Jan 23:12, 20 October 2005 (PDT)

PLEASE DELETE THIS IMAGE Zahir 07:24, 22 October 2005 (PDT)

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